Klein leadership review

[Lurch]

Every time this question comes up I just cringe. Last figures I heard put this around $100 Billion. It would still have to run city limits to city limits like the airports, there would still be a check in time like the airports, and there still would be the security delas like the airports.

By $100 billion you mean $5 billion, right (link below).

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...8cb7d6e&k=8692

Personally, I think Klein gets way too much credit. His original platform when elected was the same as every other party after the year's of excess of a dying PC regime - cut spending. He did a good job for about 4 years, but now Alberta is once again the highest spending province per capita. What is especially stupid is the government is ramping up infrastructure spending at exactly the wrong time, ie. when the economy is overheated, thereby contributing to inflation in the province. Realistically, Klein is a Liberal, IMO when it comes to fiscal tendencies - he had no choice back in the 90's but to cut spending, but now that the money is there he spends like a drunken sailor.

[Vulcan]

Here's how I see this unfolding. Some big foreign company offers to build the rail link, if Alberta will lend them the money, say 5 billion and give them the land required. Cost overruns bring this up to 10 billion, which Alberta lends. The company struggles and is unable to repay the loan, so Alberta forgives the loan and everybody is happy for ever after. This last part makes page 8 in the Herald.

Oh yeh, I forgot Klein retires and becomes a board member of this company.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Lurch

What is especially stupid is the government is ramping up infrastructure spending at exactly the wrong time, ie. when the economy is overheated, thereby contributing to inflation in the province.

Are you saying that the infrastructure spending isn't needed? We should go another x number of years without it?

[vanisleflamesfan]

Ralph's leadership review... hmmm let me see:

1. Cut the amount of royalties that corporations have to pay US to dig up OUR oil and sell it back to US at inflated prices ---- Check.

2. Use that loss of royalty revenue as an excuse to gut the healthcare system, and open the doors to private, for profit, American style healthcare ---- Check.

3. Convice Albertans that these corporate handouts are helping the economy, even though the stats show that employment and real wages in the energy sector have D-Kleined in the past 10 years ---- Check.

Yup, looks like he has been doing a bang up job.

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by vanisleflamesfan

Ralph's leadership review... hmmm let me see:

1. Cut the amount of royalties that corporations have to pay US to dig up OUR oil and sell it back to US at inflated prices ---- Check.

2. Use that loss of royalty revenue as an excuse to gut the healthcare system, and open the doors to private, for profit, American style healthcare ---- Check.

3. Convice Albertans that these corporate handouts are helping the economy, even though the stats show that employment and real wages in the energy sector have D-Kleined in the past 10 years ---- Check.

Yup, looks like he has been doing a bang up job.

Most uninformed post ever!

[vanisleflamesfan]

How do you figure?

I can give you the sources to verify all of these statements if you wish.

[Canada 02]

I'll give you hard facts to refute each statement if you wish

[vanisleflamesfan]

The Parkland Institute at the University of Alberta has estimated that the amount of royalty breaks given by the Kleil govt. amounts to 2 Billion every year. This is calculated by taking as a base, the royalty rate as it stood 'pre-Kkklein'.

According to Statistics Canada and the Alberta Federation of Labour the real wages (this means adjusted according to inflation) of Albertans (including those in the oil and gas sector) decreased every year between 1995 and 2004.

In the same time period, the number of Albertans employed in the oil and gas sector decreased according to the Parkland Institute, The Pembina Institute (UofA again), Stats Canada, and the Alberta Federation of Labour.

Refute away.

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by vanisleflamesfan

Kkklein

your extremist views are not worth responding to. Take this crap somewhere else

[Coolsurfer79]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

your extremist views are not worth responding to. Take this crap somewhere else

I'd like to see some of these facts you have to refute his post if you wouldn't mind.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by vanisleflamesfan

The Parkland Institute at the University of Alberta has estimated that the amount of royalty breaks given by the Kleil govt. amounts to 2 Billion every year. This is calculated by taking as a base, the royalty rate as it stood 'pre-Kkklein'.

According to Statistics Canada and the Alberta Federation of Labour the real wages (this means adjusted according to inflation) of Albertans (including those in the oil and gas sector) decreased every year between 1995 and 2004.

In the same time period, the number of Albertans employed in the oil and gas sector decreased according to the Parkland Institute, The Pembina Institute (UofA again), Stats Canada, and the Alberta Federation of Labour.

Refute away.

careful vanisle....your stepping on the "right" toe....it hurts the most!

You should present your case to everyone...however be aware that they will jump on your facts as ill reputed regardless of what you say or what you present. Its the way things are in Alberta when generation after generation votes for the same party federally or provincially.

[Cowperson]

You should present your case to everyone...however be aware that they will jump on your facts as ill reputed regardless of what you say or what you present. Its the way things are in Alberta when generation after generation votes for the same party federally or provincially.

. . . . . or the way it is in a province that consistently has the lowest unemployement rate in the nation along with an economic growth rate that is consistently the highest.

The unemployment rate in Alberta was 3.1% last month, a 30 year low. A story in the Herald today says two-thirds of bosses in Calgary need more workers.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/na...30663d&k=59076

Whether the province charges too much or too little on the royalty front is pretty much a subjective argument . . . . . the left wing will argue oil companies are getting off too easily while the right wing will point to not only the relative prosperity and job creation happening but could also dredge up examples of governments destroying initiative and investment by asking too much.

Vanisleflamesfan might also want to provide some evidence that Ralph Klein belongs to the Klu Klux Klan as his post inferred.

Cowperson

[Hakan]

Klein is an embarrassment, plain and simple.

The fact that he has gotten away scott-free doing what he does routinely is an embarrassment to Albertans.

Fotze, are you telling me the tar sands wouldn't have been developed at this pace without the subsidies? Maybe there would have been a nominal factor of reduction but dwindling oil reserves, high prices, and geopolitical unrest make the largest reserve in North America and the 2 or 3rd largest on the planet lucrative no matter how many subsidies you dole out.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

You should present your case to everyone...however be aware that they will jump on your facts as ill reputed regardless of what you say or what you present. Its the way things are in Alberta when generation after generation votes for the same party federally or provincially.

. . . . . or the way it is in a province that consistently has the lowest unemployement rate in the nation along with an economic growth rate that is consistently the highest.

The unemployment rate in Alberta was 3.1% last month, a 30 year low. A story in the Herald today says two-thirds of bosses in Calgary need more workers.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/na...30663d&k=59076

Whether the province charges too much or too little on the royalty front is pretty much a subjective argument . . . . . the left wing will argue oil companies are getting off too easily while the right wing will point to not only the relative prosperity and job creation happening but could also dredge up examples of governments destroying initiative and investment by asking too much.

Vanisleflamesfan might also want to provide some evidence that Ralph Klein belongs to the Klu Klux Klan as his post inferred.

Cowperson

ah nice try Cow...its gotta be easy to employ the couple hundred thousand people that live in the province! I mean what would Alberta be without all them bums and creeps from TROC! LOL

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by Cheese

ah nice try Cow...its gotta be easy to employ the couple hundred thousand people that live in the province! I mean what would Alberta be without all them bums and creeps from TROC! LOL

I'm sure that would have been a terrific comeback if anybody knew what you were talking about.

Cowperson

[transplant99]

Klein is an embarrassment, plain and simple.

No he isn't.

The fact that he has gotten away scott-free doing what he does routinely is an embarrassment to Albertans.

No it isn't and 70% of the population disagrees with you.

Fotze, are you telling me the tar sands wouldn't have been developed at this pace without the subsidies? Maybe there would have been a nominal factor of reduction but dwindling oil reserves, high prices, and geopolitical unrest make the largest reserve in North America and the 2 or 3rd largest on the planet lucrative no matter how many subsidies you dole out

He allowed the big companies to set up the infrastructure for a massive development long before oil prices were sky high.....it was all part of the Alberta Advantage plan and no matter how you like to spin it....it worked. And its still working.

Lowest unemployment, highest economic growth.....yup...embarrassing allright.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by fotze

TROCHU maybe?

LOLOL...maybe.

[Cube Inmate]

Time for some renewal... Ralph has stopped leading, and is just keeping the seat warm for the next one.

Part of the problem is that once leaders get old, they start thinking about their own personal careers winding down, and kind of treat their leadership duties the same way...just maintaining things until it's time to quit. In essence, a province/country/city has to be treated like a person in his 40s...well-established with a good foundation to build on, but still has to be somewhat aggressive to ensure the future we want.

Shelf life of an "inspired" leader seems to be around 8 years.

[vanisleflamesfan]

In keeping with the rules of the Forum as to saying nothing libelous, I should note that the extra K's were a mere typo...

However, I believe the rest of my economic policy criticisms to be sound.

The royalty breaks (which again, are calculated by taking the difference between what Klein makes them pay, and what they were paying to the administrations before Klein and has nothing to do with pre-provincial-government land tenure) show that Albertans are losing money on THEIR oil. This money could have been used to pay for all of the things that Ralph convinced us HAD to be cut.

The other side of that arguement is that cutting corporate royalty responsibilities helps the economy. And to that I have supplied details on the wage and job decreases, in an attempt to show that the only ones that benefit are the owners of the companies, those royalty savings are not being passed on to the workers.

As far as unemployment stats go, I would wonder how many of those new jobs are in the lower paying service sectors. Also, if you are interested, there was a really good article on MSN Money the other day about the 'new' ways that governments calculate unemployment statistics. The numbers don't always mean what we think they do anymore.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by vanisleflamesfan

As far as unemployment stats go, I would wonder how many of those new jobs are in the lower paying service sectors. Also, if you are interested, there was a really good article on MSN Money the other day about the 'new' ways that governments calculate unemployment statistics. The numbers don't always mean what we think they do anymore.

So what if there are a lot of jobs created in the "lower paying service industries". There are so many of them there, that employers can't keep people and they're no longer exactly low paying. I've heard of kids making obscene amounts of money flipping burgers, even just starting (considering their jobs carry no responsibility, no required training/school, are easy, no worries about security)
These jobs are great for the economy too. Office jobs aren't the only ones that count. Someone still needs to take out the trash, and for some people, that's all their qualified/capable of doing. Having a boom in these sectors (which is caused by a boom in "better" sectors of industry) just make working conditions and salary better for them.