Friedman's 31 - June 25. Dougie's role. Rieder UFA. Flames interested in Zucker?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Zucker would be great if he was a RW.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Zucker would be great if he was a RW. Given that he isn't, go offer sheet William Nylander.

He plays both LW and RW.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I'd love Zucker, and I imagine that means we'd have to take on Ennis to get the job done (rumoured).

This Week:

To MIN: Michael Frolik, Michael Stone, Andrew Mangiapane
To CGY: Jason Zucker (RFA), Tyler Ennis

33 goals, 64 points. Taking on a 3.6M contract, especially when you have them taking on Stone's contract when they already have Suter, Spurgeon, Brodin, Dumba, etc. isn't going to get him lol.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

33 goals, 64 points. Taking on a 3.6M contract, especially when you have them taking on Stone's contract when they already have Suter, Spurgeon, Brodin, Dumba, etc. isn't going to get him lol.

Yeah, Eatbread I think has solid value - but we'd undoubtedly need to add a fair bit more.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by keenan87

I REALLY want Rieder... I think he would be the perfect player on this team. Huge fan of his for a few years now.

Gaudreau-Monahan-???
Tkachuk-Jankowski-Lindholm
Rieder-Backlund-Frolik
Lazar-Shore-Foo
Hathaway

Trade Brouwer and Mangiapane to a team for a 7th round Pick

Bennett for Simmonds? (wishful thinking)

Wait why are we trading Mangiapane for that return...just to get rid of Brouwer...the guy was a top 5 AHLer last year and has AHL numbers that align closely with being a top 6 forward, and at least a top 9.

Agree on wanting Reider though.

He's a bit of a swiss army knife that can fit on any line IMO. I wonder if we could send a 5th or something to LA to get his rights and then qualify him.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

So the Flames considered Hamilton a steadier partner for Hamonic. Kind of goes against a lot of the bad takes here that Dougie wasn’t solid defensively and that Gio was carrying him.

Except that before Dougie was paired with Gio, Hamilton was playing on the 3rd pair with Jokipakka and playing like 13-14 minutes. That's how far his game was slipping and that's when the trade rumors were at their highest point. Not a lot people remembered that, but Gio without a doubt stabilized his game and covered up a lot of his defensive woes.

Dougie will always be a goal scoring force, but I think his defensive game will always be problematic.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

How does Dougie come across as a "me first" guy here?

Gio-Hamilton was the best pair in the league last year. That pair helps the team win.

The Flames PP was putrid last season, partly because of strategy, but also because of player usage. Why Dougie wasn't on PP1 is absolutely mind-boggling.

So call it selfish if you want, but Dougie in both these roles helped the team win.

Repeating this every time you post does not make it a fact.


The top pairing defense is the most important factor in team success, outside of goal tending.

The Flames won 37 games

A team with one of the 6 top pairings in the league wins 45 games and makes the playoffs.

[Locke]

No kidding he was disappointed in not being on the Top Powerplay unit, that was straight up idiotic.

Gulutzan's last parting gift. Pissing off Hamilton because of his own idiocy.

Glad hes in Edmonton.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

So the Flames considered Hamilton a steadier partner for Hamonic. Kind of goes against a lot of the bad takes here that Dougie wasn’t solid defensively and that Gio was carrying him.

Not necessarily. It sounds like Brodie was too unpredictable for Hamonic (free form jazz). Hamilton could be more predictable while still not being great defensively. The net result could still be an improvement though.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Yeah, Eatbread I think has solid value - but we'd undoubtedly need to add a fair bit more.

Mangipane 22 year old 10 NHL games ... would be worth a 7th round pick maybe a 6th round pick that the Flames paid for him.


Just to establish relative value what would you feel comfortable offering the Jets for Petan? If you say anything more than a 4th round pick I would be surprised.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Locke

No kidding he was disappointed in not being on the Top Powerplay unit, that was straight up idiotic.

Gulutzan's last parting gift. Pissing off Hamilton because of his own idiocy.

Glad hes in Edmonton.

Like I said before, this is a common misconception around here, the top PP unit when Dougie was moved to, was still one of the worst powerplays in the league (bottom 5).

The short lived success seems to be something that everyone clings to, but fact is, it was not the solution. The real problem was when we lost Versteeg. The math simply does not lie.

16-17 (with Versteeg) = Top 10 PP
2017 Playoffs (With Versteeg) = #1 PP
17-18 (With Versteeg)= Top #11 PP
17-18 (Without Versteeg) = #30 (second worst in the NHL)

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Mangipane 22 year old 10 NHL games ... would be worth a 7th round pick maybe a 6th round pick that the Flames paid for him.


Just to establish relative value what would you feel comfortable offering the Jets for Petan? If you say anything more than a 4th round pick I would be surprised.

Nic Petan has 95 games at the NHL level and has put up 21 points. He also hasn't produced at the AHL level like Mangiapane has, so I'd say that Petan is a bad comparable.

Eatbread at the AHL level through 2 seasons: .83 PPG (105 games)
Petan at the AHL level through 3 seasons: .46 PPG (108 Games)

There's clearly a notable difference between the two at the AHL level.

If we're grabbing random players, a better comprable would be Marchessault.

306 GP at the AHL level, .86 PPG.

Eatbread >>> Petan

[Oling_Roachinen]

Then use Teemu Pulkkinen as the comparable. Undersized forward who tore up the AHL in his early twenties.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Mangipane 22 year old 10 NHL games ... would be worth a 7th round pick maybe a 6th round pick that the Flames paid for him.


Just to establish relative value what would you feel comfortable offering the Jets for Petan? If you say anything more than a 4th round pick I would be surprised.

I would say, since Mangiapane has progressed quite a bit, that he's worth more than what you say.

What do you think the chances are that he's a serviceable NHLer now, compared to when he was drafted? You first suggest a 7th, less than his original position? Come on dude.

I'd say there's a far better chance he plays in the NHL now than on draft day. A better chance than your average 3rd rounder for sure.

[bax]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Mangipane 22 year old 10 NHL games ... would be worth a 7th round pick maybe a 6th round pick that the Flames paid for him.


Just to establish relative value what would you feel comfortable offering the Jets for Petan? If you say anything more than a 4th round pick I would be surprised.

LOL

He lead the AHL in PPG while being one of the youngest players in the league on a very mediocre team. He has much greater value than that.

[Royle9]

Zucker - Yes
Sniper - Goal scorer - Shoot first guy which is what we could use on the 2nd line/PP

Reider - No
I'd sooner have one of the young guys compete for the 3rd line LW spot rather than pick him up.

Eatbread/Klimchuk/Dube/Bennett

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Not necessarily. It sounds like Brodie was too unpredictable for Hamonic (free form jazz). Hamilton could be more predictable while still not being great defensively. The net result could still be an improvement though.

More importantly, since Hamonic is supposed to be the more defensive defenceman, then Hamilton wouldn't need to be a Gio level defender. He just needs to be able to communicate with Hamonic well.


The one positive takeaway from this is that Peters is already showing signs of being smarter than Gulutzan was with roster management and being flexible enough to abandon a strict, thoughtless L-R L-R L-R philosophy, even when it hurts the team.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by bax

LOL

He lead the AHL in PPG while being one of the youngest players in the league on a very mediocre team. He has much greater value than that.

Wallmark had a higher PPG and more points. He was also the same age. So this isn't quite accurate.

Still, the year before Lander and good ol' Agostino lead the league in point-per-game. Neither were "NHL players" or close.

Vatrano did it in 2016. Small, undersized, offensive forward at 21. Sounds familiar. He did make the NHL, and was more recently traded for a 3rd round pick. Griffith wasn't far behind in PPG, likewise he's made the NHL where he's been claimed off waivers multiple times.

And before that was Pulkkinen. It's not quite a ringing endorsement to lead the AHL in point-per-game. There has been hundreds of NHL players to have strong AHL seasons and become good or even elite players, no one will deny that. But for each one there's probably 3 or 4 AHL players to have equally good seasons and go on to do nothing in the NHL.

If someone is willing to take on Brouwer's crap contract and all they want back is Mangiapane, I don't doubt that the Flames would make that trade.

Of course Ricardow is out to lunch assuming that Mangaipane's worth less now than his original draft pick. But he's not going to fetch you much if he was up for trade, obviously the type of player to hold on to and gamble with at this point.

[topfiverecords]

Zucker would be expensive to pry out of Minnesota.

[Jeff Lebowski]

This is interesting to me. It says they wanted to reunite Gio-Brodie and give Hamonic a less free lancing partner - it does not say pair Hamilton with Hamonic.

Why would they would they want to reunite that combo when Gio-Hamilton was statistically a top pair?

Would it have put Hamilton on third pairing?