Man charged after ‘multiple sexual assaults’ at West Edmonton Mall waterpark

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

I dunno, going back to the Liberalism and non Identity Group thing, my hope is that this is examined on an individual basis. This guy is a scum bag, and in my mind has forfeited his privilege of residing in our country after we took him and his family in. His individual circumstances, being a refugee, to me dictate that he should be deported but by no means should people feel that his actions are representative of the larger whole of Syrian refugees or other immigrants.

I'm my own fumbling kind of way that was the point I was trying to make, there will be a certain amount of Pedo's in any group of men, be they refugees or cops.

Thus far the only identifiable social group I'm aware of that have definitively been shown to have abnormally higher amounts of sex offenders in are Catholic Priests.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I'm my own fumbling kind of way that was the point I was trying to make, there will be a certain amount of Pedo's in any group of men, be they refugees or cops.

Thus far the only identifiable social group I'm aware of that have definitively been shown to have abnormally higher amounts of sex offenders in are Catholic Priests.

No for sure, and I'd agree with that. It's an easy thing for a certain subset of society to turn this into empirical proof that refugees are something to be barred from entry/feared.

The one wrinkle to that though is it's tough to ignore what's been happening in Europe when you get large accumulations of Middle Eastern men that have been carrying out assaults. What factors go into that are hard to say, you could argue for several but I have to believe that some part in that are the way women are treated and looked at in those cultures. We need to keep a lid on that here, so that's why I'm all in favor of punitive measures to tone set that this is not acceptable behaviour.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I'm my own fumbling kind of way that was the point I was trying to make, there will be a certain amount of Pedo's in any group of men, be they refugees or cops.

Thus far the only identifiable social group I'm aware of that have definitively been shown to have abnormally higher amounts of sex offenders in are Catholic Priests.

And even then the big issue has been the cover up which allowed it to become a safe haven for pedophiles. There are some estimates that put 3%-5% of males as pedophiles. So if of 25000 refugees you'd expect say 5000 adult males which would be about 150 pedophiles. Even if the rate in the general public of active pedophiles was .1% you'd still expect to allow 5 pedophiles to have entered the country.

I appreciate globals article not discussing that he was a refugee until towards the end.

[taco.vidal]

Originally Posted by GGG

And even then the big issue has been the cover up which allowed it to become a safe haven for pedophiles. There are some estimates that put 3%-5% of males as pedophiles. So if of 25000 refugees you'd expect say 5000 adult males which would be about 150 pedophiles. Even if the rate in the general public of active pedophiles was .1% you'd still expect to allow 5 pedophiles to have entered the country.

I appreciate globals article not discussing that he was a refugee until towards the end.

The reports only provide the detail that the girls were under 16. It doesnt say they were children. Pedophiles like kids, not teenagers. I dont want to argue about a definition, but the guy may not be a pedo by definition. Regardless, it seems he doesnt think theres anything wrong with groping strange females in public. He wasnt very discreet about and didnt run away after he did it. Sounds like he didnt think he was doing anything wrong.

[CliffFletcher]

People realise our modern Canadian notions of sexual propriety, age appropriateness, consent, etc. are not universal global norms, right? A significant portion of the men in world have sexual mores that would make the chauvinists in Mad Men look progressive. 14 and 15 year old girls are absolutely within the wheelhouse of men in conservative rural parts of the Middle East and Asia (and were in Europe not that long ago). Much of the world is about 50 to 100 years behind Canada when it comes to attitudes about sex, consent, and women's (or boy's) rights.

[Clarkey]

https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/...trudeaujpg.jpg

[GGG]

Originally Posted by taco.vidal

The reports only provide the detail that the girls were under 16. It doesnt say they were children. Pedophiles like kids, not teenagers. I dont want to argue about a definition, but the guy may not be a pedo by definition. Regardless, it seems he doesnt think theres anything wrong with groping strange females in public. He wasnt very discreet about and didnt run away after he did it. Sounds like he didnt think he was doing anything wrong.

Fair enough, we'd could look at the number of regular sex offenders and do the same calculation that somewhere around 1% of men sexually assault women therefore in a pool of refugees you expect 50 or so.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Clarkey

https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/...trudeaujpg.jpg

I raise you Douglas Garland.

[CaramonLS]

We can spin the whataboutism line of thought in many different directions, blame Trump, etc - but when you have polls like this that come out in Europe where the majority of people are in favor of banning immigration from Muslim majority countries, that is highly disturbing. It should never have even arrived at a point like this. I'm upset that it has gotten to this point and where people can't even discuss these types of issues freely, openly and honestly.

I hope that we can have civil conversations around integration and issues surrounding mass immigration - these need to happen sooner than later, because we are heading down a similar path. That also means that many Canadians, including those on this forum, need to stop slandering people like Kellie Leitch who want to have a conversation about it.

[Swift]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

I hope that we can have civil conversations around integration and issues surrounding mass immigration - these need to happen sooner than later, because we are heading down a similar path. That also means that many Canadians, including those on this forum, need to stop slandering people like Kellie Leitch who want to have a conversation about it.

Ok, but what kind of conversation would we have if this was a white Canadian guy? Groping, after all, isn't solely the domain of middle eastern men. I imagine the very short conversation would go like "Man, that guy's a perv and should be locked up" and that'd be the end of it. White guys who do this kind of thing are no more representative of you or I than this guy is representative of middle eastern guys.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by Cameron Swift

Ok, but what kind of conversation would we have if this was a white Canadian guy? Groping, after all, isn't solely the domain of middle eastern men. I imagine the very short conversation would go like "Man, that guy's a perv and should be locked up" and that'd be the end of it. White guys who do this kind of thing are no more representative of you or I than this guy is representative of middle eastern guys.

The bigger question that this raises is whether or not 12 sexual assault related charges warrants deportation for someone who is not Canadian.

If he is allowed to remain in Canada, it sends a pretty clear message on the priorities of the government.

[Krovikan]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

The bigger question that this raises is whether or not 12 sexual assault related charges warrants deportation for someone who is not Canadian.

If he is allowed to remain in Canada, it sends a pretty clear message on the priorities of the government.

This is a weird statement to me since deportation involves border security and the courts, and usually Minister (the government) don't get involved in individual cases. So how would this hypothetical outcome you have come up with say anything about the government priorities? Usually border security goes after serious offenders; however these cases gets jammed up in the courts. This of course has to wait until the criminal case is finished, all which will probably take longer to complete then the next election will take to start.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by taco.vidal

The reports only provide the detail that the girls were under 16. It doesnt say they were children. Pedophiles like kids, not teenagers.

"Gawwwwddd it's ephebophile not pedophile you uncultured swine!" /reddit

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Cameron Swift

Ok, but what kind of conversation would we have if this was a white Canadian guy? Groping, after all, isn't solely the domain of middle eastern men. I imagine the very short conversation would go like "Man, that guy's a perv and should be locked up" and that'd be the end of it. White guys who do this kind of thing are no more representative of you or I than this guy is representative of middle eastern guys.

cultural norms.
We're raised to know touching teenage girls is wrong and those that do are sick. in some places what this fellow did was normal, ok, and accepted. this fellow may not think he did anything wrong.

seems like 13% of girls in Syria are married before turning 18, 3% by age 15, and religious leaders can authorize exceptions to the age of consent.
http://www.girlsnotbrides.org/child-...arab-republic/

[CaptainCrunch]

Cultural norms mean nothing when he's touching girls without consent, it dosen't matter if they're 12 or 32.

On top of that, I don't frankly give about the culture of a country thousands of miles away, here in our culture, touching young girls and young boys is against the law, and ignorance due to culture doesn't matter.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

cultural norms.
We're raised to know touching teenage girls is wrong and those that do are sick. in some places what this fellow did was normal, ok, and accepted. this fellow may not think he did anything wrong.

seems like 13% of girls in Syria are married before turning 18, 3% by age 15, and religious leaders can authorize exceptions to the age of consent.
http://www.girlsnotbrides.org/child-...arab-republic/

Do we have any evidence to support he notion that sexual assault is higher amount immigrants from Muslim majority countries than the Canadian populace. I mean the whole rape culture argument is that rape is casually condoned by the general populace. Take a look at what the US is trying to do to reporting and investigation laws around sexual assault on campus. Without evidence of higher rates your speculation is harmful.

[Weitz]

Deport him. Don't waste any money or resources on putting him in jail.

Disgusting.

[CliffFletcher]

It's difficult to compare countries and cultures when it comes to sexual assault. In many conservative cultures, women are 'protected' from men by not being allowed out at night, not being allowed to drink alcohol, wearing modest clothing, and they basically have little or no social contact with men outside their family. A woman will get up and move if a men sits beside her on the bus. So sexual assaults by strangers will not be common because society is structured in such a way that there's very little opportunity.

The flipside is that when women are dressed 'indecently,' drinking alcohol, or otherwise behaving in a 'brazen' manner, they're considered open game. Locals will even warn tourists that the allowances given to foreign ways don't extend beyond the tourist beach or hotel. You certainly don't seen teenage girls wearing bathing suits in public or in mixed company in much of Asia or Africa. Pawing at girls isn't even considered sexual assault in much of the world (and let's remember, wasn't considered sexual assault in Canada either until recently).

Canadians are pretty naive about how women are treated elsewhere in the world. We don't have a problem expressing disgust with our own social norms of 30 or 70 years ago, when we think about them at all, but can't seem to bring ourselves to recognize that much of the world still has those attitudes.

[Buff]

Easy to say "deport him". Maybe it is punishment to go back to the situation he was fleeing from but would those wishing for him to be deported also hope for his home country to punish him for his crimes here in Canada, or are you happy just having him off our hands and walking free (or "free") in his homeland?

I ask this because our society often tends to lean toward wanting criminals to be punished. So, is leaving Canada punishment enough, or is the expectation that his home country would then punish him?

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Buff

Easy to say "deport him". Maybe it is punishment to go back to the situation he was fleeing from but would those wishing for him to be deported also hope for his home country to punish him for his crimes here in Canada, or are you happy just having him off our hands and walking free (or "free") in his homeland?

I ask this because our society often tends to lean toward wanting criminals to be punished. So, is leaving Canada punishment enough, or is the expectation that his home country would then punish him?

IMO he has lost any right he had to be in our Country. Thats why you deport him. If you let his home country know what he did here, I wouldn't care. But I would hate having our tax dollars pay for him serve time in our jails then stay in our country.