Summer 2015 Prospect Ranking - Round 13 Run Off

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Andersson is like 10 lbs. overweight. Medvedev was maybe 50lbs overweight. They aren't comparable. Andersson is a 2nd round pick, they won't be perfect at that point and they won't be perfect at our 13th best prospect either.

I wasn't trying to be negative on the guy. I loved the pick. I just believe that there are less questions with Arnold. Even if it is 1 less question.

[N26]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I think the reason some people say a top 4 D trumps a bottom 6 forward is because it's a lot easier to pick up bottom 6 forwards in trades or UFA. It's pretty hard (apparently unless your Brad Treliving) to pick up a top 4 Dman without sacrificing much (again, apparently unless your Brad Treliving). If Andersson turns out to be a top 4 D it'll be easier in the future to get a bottom 6 player like Arnold but if we have an amazing bottom 6 and need a top 4 dman, we probably wouldn't get it that easily.

Point being, it's a lot easier to get a bottom 6 forward through trades and UFA than it is to get a solid top 4 Dman

I'm not disagreeing with you much but my point was that it is quite difficult to get these diversely talented bottom 6 forwards (such as Shaw, Rakell etc). As difficult as it is to get a top 4 D (for most GMs ). And Arnold is one of the few in the system that looks like one to me. While Andersson is in a larger group of players that might be our #4 (hey he may be better than that).

I am not here to disparage Andersson but to pump Arnold's tires a bit. I think he is gonna be such a useful piece.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I think the reason some people say a top 4 D trumps a bottom 6 forward is because it's a lot easier to pick up bottom 6 forwards in trades or UFA. It's pretty hard (apparently unless your Brad Treliving) to pick up a top 4 Dman without sacrificing much (again, apparently unless your Brad Treliving). If Andersson turns out to be a top 4 D it'll be easier in the future to get a bottom 6 player like Arnold but if we have an amazing bottom 6 and need a top 4 dman, we probably wouldn't get it that easily.

Point being, it's a lot easier to get a bottom 6 forward through trades and UFA than it is to get a solid top 4 Dman

Wideman UFA,
Russell trade for a 5th round pick,
Gio undrafted free agent,
Hamilton trade,

So Brodie was the most traditional of the Flames top d-men ... a 4th round pick #114 overall in 2008.

even #6 Engelland was a UFA and Smid a trade

Might sound like I am condescending but that is what happens when you argue with facts rather than just relying on opinion.


2004 cup run defense top 4

Leopold traded from the Ducks
Regehr trade from the avs
Warrner trade from Sabres
Ferrence traded from Penguins for future considerations

[Yanda]

Will still be voting Smith next vote

[Poe969]

Oh great ricardow is here!

We actually traded for Widemans rights didn't we? Pretty sure we gave the caps a pick so we could negotiate with him before he hit UFA so your whole arguing the facts BS doesn't really apply but I'm sure you'll say the same thing over and over.

Russell we traded for, Gio was a lucky find and Hamilton was...well I don't know if anyone will ever know what Sweeny was thinking.

The point is that Andersson has top 4 potential and Arnold looks like a bottom 6 guy. There are tons of examples of bottom 6 guys traded or picked up on waivers. I don't even know what you're talking about. If it was that easy to get top 4 D then why do some teams still have crappy D? wouldn't every team just trade a 5th pick for guy like Russell if they could? You make it sound like a D corps like ours can just be thrown together by any team.

And you don't sound condescending, you sound....like you usually do.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Might sound like I am condescending but that is what happens when you argue with facts rather than just relying on opinion.


2004 cup run defense top 4

Leopold traded from the Ducks
Regehr trade from the avs
Warrner trade from Sabres
Ferrence traded from Penguins for future considerations

Assets used to acquire the player:
Leoplold -> player and 2nd round pick
Regehr -> Theo Fleury
Warrner -> Chris Drury
Ferrence -> yes got him for cheap but was he was only 4th because of the injuries.

So yeah, kind of expensive to get to where we did. Kind of shows you the asset value of a decent dman.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Wideman UFA,
Russell trade for a 5th round pick,
Gio undrafted free agent,
Hamilton trade,

So Brodie was the most traditional of the Flames top d-men ... a 4th round pick #114 overall in 2008.

even #6 Engelland was a UFA and Smid a trade

Might sound like I am condescending but that is what happens when you argue with facts rather than just relying on opinion.


2004 cup run defense top 4

Leopold traded from the Ducks
Regehr trade from the avs
Warrner trade from Sabres
Ferrence traded from Penguins for future considerations

You weren't condescending. Until you decided to be. Facts are facts. Interpretation of the facts are opinion.

The fact that the Flames have found D outside of the draft does not equal top 4 D being easy to find outside the draft.

You would be much less annoying if you didn't treat people like they were morons. Especially given the overall quality of your average posts.

[Street Pharmacist]

Re: Arnold. Josh Weissbock tweeted this about the diminishing chances of reaching the bugs from the AHL (lower actually if coming from NCAA). This is an analysis of players playing regularly in AHL with at least 1 game of NHL graduating to play more than 200 games. I'm sure Detroit skews this too:

Summary of AHLer -> NHL Regular
19: 43.69%
20: 31.8%
21: 23.1%
22: 17.9%
23: 12,56%
24: 10,1%


Obviously Arnold is an N of 1 so this doesn't specifically give good chances of making it, but it does tell you where players on his category are on the scale of chances to be a contributor to the NHL club

[Crumpy-Gunt]

This thread has been ricardowd

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Funkhouser

For anyone calling Arnold bottom-6...
Don't forget he centered the top line in NCAA and was Adirondack's #1 centre last year (his first in the AHL. He's not going to displace Monahan or Bennett, but seeing as he shoots right, I could see him playing wing in the top 6.

He was also regarded as the best defensive forward in college hockey, one of the reasons Hayes and Gaudreau were able to do their thing.

[thymebalm]

I appreciate the obvious offensive talent that Andersson has, but if you aren't sure what Bill Arnold is all about, and you think he rode Johnny's coat tails to the NHL, you should check out this one page year-over-year BC career summary.

This kid has it. He might be on of our oldest prospects, but all signs points to the bigs for Bill.

http://www.bceagles.com/sports/m-hoc...ld_726124.html

AS A SENIOR (2013-14):... became second player in BC history to win the John "Snooks" Kelley Memorial Award twice ... shared the award with Patrick Brown ... leaves as a top 30 scorer in Boston College history (144 points) ... finished sixth in nation in points per game (1.32 ppg) ... won the Frank Jones Award which goes to New England's top defensive forward ... tabbed Hockey East Co-Best Defensive Forward and Hockey East honorable mention ... became the 75th Eagle in program history to post 100 points for their career by way of a goal and assist in a 5-1 triumph at Boston University (11/8) ...

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Crumpy-Gunt

This thread has been ricardowd

We need to learn not to bite. I'm guilty too. It's too easy because the argument is so very easy to make. Laid out on a silver platter easy.