Terrorist attack in France, Tunisia, and Kuwait *Updated*

[Resolute 14]

Also, the US (and Canada) have been allies and supporters of Israel for a great many years now. How many terrorist attacks have Palestinians committed on either nation's soil as a consequence?

No, the point of Jets4Life's post was to make this thread all about himself. He wanted a platform to preach his evident hatred of Harper and Israel - neither of which is relevant to this thread.

[CaptainCrunch]

Hey fellas, ISIS or ISIL has a perfect reason to hate and attack Canada and its Prime Minister.

I mean how dare we speak out against a group of psychopathic killers who like to end a hard day of cutting off heads and shooting people with rocket launchers by going home and raping a couple of pre-teenage sex slaves.

ISIS is fighting a war against fellow Muslims who's mistake is worshipping or interpreting their religion differently.

The only true link between ISIL or ISIS and Isreal is that these murdering psycho's are a apocalyptic death cult who believes that they are ushering in the end of days by forcing the West into a confrontation.

Even the most extreme Palestine groups see the malignant tumor of this group as a dire threat. Because once ISIL finishes with Iraq and Syria they'll keep pushing through and if they can get into Isreal they'll be slaughtering Palestinian's as fast as they slaughter Jews.

Jets4Life either doesn't understand the ISIL/ISIS issue and what they stand for, or he's grandstanding.

[Ozy_Flame]

Ok, just asking. Usually picking sides in the debate doesn't end very well. Canada publicly declared its support for Israeli attacks on Palestine and Lebanon in recent years, in addition to voting against a host of UN resolutions supporting Palestinian rights. Stephen Harper has made no secret about his conservative, "moral stance" on geopolitical battles, and Canada has become far more partisan when it comes to these types of world conflicts. I can only think it would serve to inflame tensions. I'm not generalizing on the entire Islamic world, but more commenting on how our government views the whole situation itself.

In addition to the Israel issue, ISIS has already called out Canada numerous times for attack. Michel Coulombe, Director of CSIS, has even in no uncertain terms said that there are violent people that want to kill Canadians. Canada also has an unusually strong issue of homegrown radicalization, and the threat of them coming home and utilizing their knowledge from foreign battlefields remains a big risk in our country. You can't look in the news on any given day and not find a report of a Canadian trying to leave the country and join ISIS or al-Qaeda militants in Iraq, Syria, and North and East Africa. I don't think it helps the situation when our elected government actively supports bombing runs in Syria and Iraq, given more reason for youth to join jihadi or violent causes abroad.

[polak]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Even the most extreme Palestine groups see the malignant tumor of this group as a dire threat. Because once ISIL finishes with Iraq and Syria they'll keep pushing through and if they can get into Isreal they'll be slaughtering Palestinian's as fast as they slaughter Jews.

Wouldn't Isreal absolutely flatten ISIS?

I can't imagine it'd be much of a fight?

[CaptainCrunch]

there were people that were joining ISIS before Canada committed Military support to that fight.

The radicalization nowdays has less to do with Isreal and more to do with selling these lost souls on the concept of a established conservative pure Islamic Calliphate then a fight against Israel.

These guys are going over not with the promise of killing Jews and pushing Israel into the ocean, but painting a picture for lost pathetic people of going over and fighting and killing for their religion, and getting a subservient wife and a life equivalent to Paradise.

There are a lot of interesting articles on ISIS recruiting methods, I also followed a twitter of one of ISIS' more well known social media female recruiters out of interest.

Their recruiting is very professional, Goebbels would have been proud that ISIS had updated his playbook.

There's also a prevalent thought out there that the various groups under the Al-Queda banner are losing the recruiting war with ISIL because Al-Queda is still very much focused on the war against Isreal and the West and its not resonated with the more affluent recruits that ISIS is getting especially from the West.

Basically Al-Queda isn't radical and conservative enough.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by polak

Wouldn't Isreal absolutely flatten ISIS?

I can't imagine it'd be much of a fight?

I've had this argument a lot lately, first of all that I'm questioning the effectiveness of the IDF versus its formidable reputation. As the Military leaders of their previous wars in the 60's and 70's and early 80's where they pounded everything have gone into retirement or died off, the new crop of leaders aren't the same caliber, we've seen that in the last two conflicts where the IDF did struggle in terms of their goals and effectiveness.

Isreal's smartest move is to stay militarily as far away from this as possible. Even if the West goes in to a ground battle, the minute Isreal goes in any Muslim/West coalition would shatter and all of the Muslim world would turn even harder on Israel.

ISIS is like Hydra, I don't think you can fight them in a conventional fashion. ISIS is basically a ground based Infantry that zerg rushes everything and uses suicide bombers in a liberal fashion. But if a Western Power comes into that region which is based around mobility, armor and heavy air support, ISIS/ISIL will transition into an insurgent army made up of thousands of small viper nests and attempt to bleed the enemy to death via a thousand small bites.

Frankly and I don't advocate this, but the only way to beat ISIL is to treat them like a ant infestation and burn them out, but that strategy would cause a humanitarian and civilian casualty crisis that would rival anything that we've seen to this point in history.

[CaptainCrunch]

As an add on the political dimension is different. When Israel went after Hamas, and Hezbollah, those groups fought desparate but not as hard, they were willing to incur civilian casualties for example because of the public outcry that would come from the UN and the West.

Fighting ISIS is a whole different animal, nobody in the UN is going to stand up and decry deaths in the fight against ISIS, so ISIS will fight with a different level of desperation and innovation.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Maybe in terms of the date, but I don't see anything beyond that.

It doesn't take much to email three different groups of fanatics and make the suggestion that June 25th would be a good die to do something.

But ISIS isn't Al-Queda where they basically have a financing and planning division.

I don't see any signs of coordination. I think there are just a lot of these attacks going on now. Eventually by coincidence, you are going to see multiples in the same day.

[pylon]

lol, I'm not informed enough on what is going on in this particular situation right now to make a useful or informed comment, but the fact that we have a poster that has deduced and filtered this down to directly being PM Harper's fault, is truly a thing of magic. Even The Onion cannot create satire so blatantly ridiculous.

AAA+++ post, would read again.

[Flabbibulin]

Originally Posted by pylon

lol, I'm not informed enough on what is going on in this particular situation right now to make a useful or informed comment, but the fact that we have a poster that has deduced and filtered this down to directly being PM Harper's fault, is truly a thing of magic. Even The Onion cannot create satire so blatantly ridiculous.

AAA+++ post, would read again.

Ya, the absurdity of the comment is amazing. Blaming the PM of one country, that wasn't involved or attacked at all today, for his support of another country, that also wasn't involved or attacked today. That is about as proxy as it gets.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

Your complete ignorance suggests that you shouldn't be making posts in this thread, or any like it. Do you realize that Hamas and the Islamic State (supporters or members most likely to be behind these attacks) are competing militant factions, and members of ISIS probably have little to no interest in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? Better quit now before you call Pakistanis Arabs or something...

I'm just referring to the vast majority of terrorist groups in the Middle East of the past 30 years. Instead of dealing with ISIS, Al Qaeda, Hamas, etc. by trying to wipe them off the map, why can't we just open some kind of negotiations with them?

If you think ISIS, Al Qaeda, Hamas, and any other terrorist faction are completely unrelated to each other, you are just fooling yourself. These groups exist, because young Muslims feel disenchanted with what has been happening in their respective countries since the 80s.

If you look back at history, the 1991 Gulf War was the main reason that 9/11 occurred. Osama Bin Laden hated Saddam Hussein, and wanted to dispose of him. Instead, the Americans came over, and used places in Saudi Arabia to launch attacks against Iraq. If you think the reason for the US "liberating" Kuwait was not about oil, you are just fooling yourself.

Kuwait was slant drilling deep into Iraq territory before Hussein invaded the country. Imagine Mexico slant drilling 200 miles into Texas? That would start up a war pretty quickly.

As for Israel, if you read the bible, Koran, or Talmud, they all have one common denominator- Jerusalem, specifically the Old City, is of extreme significance to them. Israel has acted like an Apartheid state for the last 45 years, ever since the Six Day War, which infuriates most Muslims. It's precisely why Jews are targeted in other parts of the world.

IMHO, two main things need to change to make the world a safer place:

1. Have Israel withdraw to the 1949 Armistice line, and have the UN monitor the Old City.
2. Withdraw most troops from Iraq, and other parts of the Middle East. They look at us, as a continuation of the Colonial powers.
3. Negotiate with ISIS, and compromise with them. Some people may be completely opposed to this, but trying to kill them off has just made the problem worse, and that seems to be the US policy since 9/11.

I'm convinced there will always be some kind of conflict in the Middle East, but we really need to re-examine our foreign policy. I'm really worried the end result will be a significant attack on Canadian soil. If that were to occur, the Government will have an "I told you so" attitude, and not only push Bill C-51 through, but curtail other Rights and Freedoms Canadian have been enjoying, and taking for granted.

Can anyone honestly say the US is a safer place, since they introduced the Patriot Act?

[CaptainCrunch]

Go back and do a little research on ISIS, they are not like other terrorist groups, their aims and desires and goals are completely on a different page.

As far as your point about negotiating with them.

A) you can't since they're specific aim is to draw in a apocalyptic battle with the West.
B) You would negotiate with a group that trades young girls for services and mass murders everyone.

You're post is wordy, that's what I can say.

ISIS doesn't give two craps about Jerusalem, ISIS isn't recruiting based on the 6 day war, or Isreal or any of the common goals that the other groups share.

You've basically tried to make a common thread where non exists, ISIS is completely different in its aim.

By applying that common thread, you've shown that you haven't really done much research on this and you're ruthlessly applying an ideology to create an incorrect analysis.

Also how do you explain that most of ISIS gameplan involves Islam on Islam violence?

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

ISIS doesn't give two craps about Jerusalem, ISIS isn't recruiting based on the 6 day war, or Isreal or any of the common goals that the other groups share.

http://www.investigativeproject.org/...-against-jews#

http://unitedwithisrael.org/isis-tweets-death-to-jews/

The problem is "one man's terrorist, is another man's freedom fighter."

Israel achieved statehood by conducting terrorists acts against the British. The IDF was formed from Haggadah, a group the British labelled as a Jewish terrorist group. Killing Birtish soldiers, and blowing up the King David Hotel to achieve their political objectives. Don't you find that ironic?

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Also, the US (and Canada) have been allies and supporters of Israel for a great many years now. How many terrorist attacks have Palestinians committed on either nation's soil as a consequence?

No, the point of Jets4Life's post was to make this thread all about himself. He wanted a platform to preach his evident hatred of Harper and Israel - neither of which is relevant to this thread.

Not even close.

Arguing about how many terrorist attacks the Palestinians have committed against other nations, is somewhat of a red herring. The Islamic world have over 1,000,000,000 people. They view Israel's control of the Holy Land, and the persecution of the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, as a continuation of Colonial powers controlling land that they have historically resided in.

I certainly do not agree with Harper's unconditional support for the State of Israel. I also do not hate Israel, and I support their right to exist. I just think it is unwise, to give unyielding support, and choose sides in this conflict, when Prime Ministers of past years, have tried to be impartial, in regards to the conflict.

The good thing about Canada, is I am free to state my opinion. It's a democracy. You may not agree with me, but to say I am posting on this topic for self-serving purposes is somewhat ridiculous.

[blankall]

^^^^^

Okay we get it. You don't like Harper and Israel. You still haven't addressed the issue. What does that have to do with today's attacks?

Isis is going to disappear if everyone votes NDP? The reaction of an awful terrorist organization should dictate who I vote for?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

http://www.investigativeproject.org/...-against-jews#

http://unitedwithisrael.org/isis-tweets-death-to-jews/

The problem is "one man's terrorist, is another man's freedom fighter."

Israel achieved statehood by conducting terrorists acts against the British. The IDF was formed from Haggadah, a group the British labelled as a Jewish terrorist group. Killing Birtish soldiers, and blowing up the King David Hotel to achieve their political objectives. Don't you find that ironic?

The ability to exterminate Jews isn't the primary goal of ISIS, its to recreate a Calliphate so they can practice their extremist version of Islam and kill their enemies.

But if you look at the majority of their recruiting it has little to nothing to do with Israel or the Jews, it has to do with create a ISIS run home country in Syria and Iraq.

And you didn't answer my question.

Why is most of the ISIS violence perpetrated against fellow Muslims.

And I love how you're putting in the whole one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, I don't think anyone would look at what ISIS is doing as freedom fighting, their goal is to absolutely terrorize, enslave and exterminate.

There is no diplomatic solution with ISIS by the way, they're not interested in diplomacy with the West.

There's no negotiating point here.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by blankall

^^^^^

Okay we get it. You don't like Harper and Israel. You still haven't addressed the issue. What does that have to do with today's attacks?

Isis is going to disappear if everyone votes NDP? The reaction of an awful terrorist organization should dictate who I vote for?

I never said I did not like Israel. I do not like the way the Israeli Government is committing Human Rights violations against the Palestinians in the occupied territories. I fully support the Jewish state, and it's right to exist.

I'm not sure what the NDP has to do with anything? I disapprove of the way the Harper Government is running the country, in particular his foreign policy. I'm not sure how that makes me an NDP supporter.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

And I love how you're putting in the whole one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, I don't think anyone would look at what ISIS is doing as freedom fighting, their goal is to absolutely terrorize, enslave and exterminate.

ISIS has a very significant following in the Islamic World. Obviously in North America, not many regard them as freedom fighters. It's a completely different story in the Middle East.

[nik-]

Dude, what are you even on about. This has nothing to do with Harper or Israel. Go make another thread.

[Jets4Life]

What ISIS really wants:

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/...-wants/384980/

So frustrating that for decades, US foreign policy was so slanted against the Muslim World. It provided fertile ground for extremist groups like ISIS to prosper. Sadly, now the Conservative Government have chosen to disregard history, and copy American foreign policy. In hindsight, the Western powers should have been more respectful to the Arab world, and not exploited them due to the fact that they have unlimited supply of oil. We are certainly paying for it in the 21st century.