China- Japan "troubles"

[Knut]

Here is an interesting Picture showing all the disputes in the South China Sea.

Spoiler!

[Ozy_Flame]

^^^ I actually believe it would do the opposite. A conflict is based on long-standing rivalries and unforgiven memories of Japanese atrocities against China, particularly during the early 20th century and World War II. I believe you would see an outpouring of Chinese nationalism which would boost support for the Communist regime.

The real threat to the Chinese government is pro-democracy movements and support for Western-style capitalism that seems to have been growing well since the Tienamen (sic) Square incident. The growing prosperity of Chinese citizens, combined with a growing middle class, will demand that China works more closely with the Western (and Japanese) economies in order to support growing demand from within. Their forays into the North American energy market are an indication of this.

I see the Chinese government's biggest threat as from within, and as generations grow to realize that democracy is a right, not a Western privilege. A war with Japan would not accomplish this, at least from my POV.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

^^^ I actually believe it would do the opposite. A conflict is based on long-standing rivalries and unforgiven memories of Japanese atrocities against China, particularly during the early 20th century and World War II. I believe you would see an outpouring of Chinese nationalism which would boost support for the Communist regime.

The real threat to the Chinese government is pro-democracy movements and support for Western-style capitalism that seems to have been growing well since the Tienamen (sic) Square incident. The growing prosperity of Chinese citizens, combined with a growing middle class, will demand that China works more closely with the Western (and Japanese) economies in order to support growing demand from within. Their forays into the North American energy market are an indication of this.

I see the Chinese government's biggest threat as from within, and as generations grow to realize that democracy is a right, not a Western privilege. A war with Japan would not accomplish this, at least from my POV.

Personally I think the timing of the current rage and riots are a smoke screen for the infighting and rumoured assassination attempt on the vice president of the communist party orchestrated by a disgraced former politburo inner circle member. This dispute was simmering for a long time prior to this but the response was never this strong.

Though mind you, it could just be because Japan nationalized the island... reading media reports on the speculative causes is murky at best sometimes.

[Cowperson]

I'd like to see Gary Bettman and Donald Fehr represent China and Japan respectively to arbitrate an equitable and fair solution to both parties.

Cowperson

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I believe they did in the mid '90's.

No they NEVER did

[saskflames69]

All the pieces falling together for the big one.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

No they NEVER did

While they have never provided a list of atrocities for which they are apologizing, they did, in 1995 make overtures:

During a certain period in the not too distant past, Japan, following a mistaken national policy, advanced along the road to war, only to ensnare the Japanese people in a fateful crisis, and, through its colonial rule and aggression, caused tremendous damage and suffering to the people of many countries, particularly to those of Asian nations. In the hope that no such mistake be made in the future, I regard, in a spirit of humility, these irrefutable facts of history, and express here once again my feelings of deep remorse and state my heartfelt apology. Allow me also to express my feelings of profound mourning for all victims, both at home and abroad, of that history

I think it is a poor attempt at an apology, but to say they NEVER did isn't factual. While you may not think it goes far enough (I don't either) you must acknowledge the attempt.

BTW, I think Japan should apologize to every nation/army they came into contact with during the war.

[nik-]

One of the worst things about the Atom Bomb, other than it being the most horrible ####ing thing ever invented, is that it prevented the Japanese people from dealing with the gravity of their actions and allowed them to assume the role of victims.

[HELPNEEDED]

Originally Posted by nik-

One of the worst things about the Atom Bomb, other than it being the most horrible ####ing thing ever invented, is that it prevented the Japanese people from dealing with the gravity of their actions and allowed them to assume the role of victims.

Your saying that they did not become the victims? The people that is.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by HELPNEEDED

Your saying that they did not become the victims? The people that is.

Relatively ... no.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by HELPNEEDED

Your saying that they did not become the victims? The people that is.

No he is saying they took on the role of victim after The Bomb was dropped on them. By being the only country to ever suffer a nuclear attack, they can play the victim card.

That's how I read it.

[nik-]

And yes, an individual who was killed in a bombing, no matter what type is technically a victim. The moral stance of "victims" is another story.

[CarlW]

Here's a pretty good summary of the history of the current situation. Basically it's the USA's fault lol. http://www.countercurrents.org/muzaffar170912.htm

[Knut]

Originally Posted by CarlW

Here's a pretty good summary of the history of the current situation. Basically it's the USA's fault lol. http://www.countercurrents.org/muzaffar170912.htm

Where did you get "USA's Fault" out of that ?

[CarlW]

Originally Posted by Hesla

Where did you get "USA's Fault" out of that ?

The US administered the islands for awhile and "returned" it to Japan when consensus at the time was that it belonged to China. So how isn't this mess created by the US?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by CarlW

The US administered the islands for awhile and "returned" it to Japan when consensus at the time was that it belonged to China. So how isn't this mess created by the US?

You're reaching. The US gave them back to who had control previous to them. If they gave them to China, the conflict would still exist, it would just be reversed.

[Knut]

Originally Posted by CarlW

The US administered the islands for awhile and "returned" it to Japan when consensus at the time was that it belonged to China. So how isn't this mess created by the US?

The Islands were disputed well before the US was involved.

[CarlW]

Originally Posted by nik-

You're reaching. The US gave them back to who had control previous to them. If they gave them to China, the conflict would still exist, it would just be reversed.

Through a Joint declaration of allies (ROC, GB and USA) Japan was to cede all territory it had taken back to their owners including the Chinese territories. It seems like after the communists took power from the ROC that the US decided not to give anything more back to the Commies and decided to hand it over to Japan. Seems like they were playing cold war games which leads to today's dispute and conflict.

I actually doubt that the conflict would exist if the islands had gone back to China because Japan would've had no historical claim on the islands and the only claim would've been through annexation and everyone knows how Japan likes to talk about their wartime exploits.

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

I agree with this assessment, but the difference is Japan actively tries to prevent the current generation from learning about it's past mistakes by messing around with history taught in classes as it's an embarrassing part of their past.

This was not done in countries like Germany

I find it quite ironic that the Chinese complain about this, when talking to people about Tienanmen Square in China will get you arrested. Heck, you can't even search for it online without having the cops come to your door.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

While they have never provided a list of atrocities for which they are apologizing, they did, in 1995 make overtures:



I think it is a poor attempt at an apology, but to say they NEVER did isn't factual. While you may not think it goes far enough (I don't either) you must acknowledge the attempt.

BTW, I think Japan should apologize to every nation/army they came into contact with during the war.

What kind of apology was that? Who are they actually apologizing to? Spewing some nonchalant statement did nothing in terms of apologizing on the brutality they did to those nations. If they really want to admit to the brutal acts, they need to come out and apologize to China and Korea.