BBC films first footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Thor

I'm curious, is it ethical to leave them be and have 50% of the newborns die at birth.... How about old age being 30 yrs old?

The reaction to these remote tribes is "we must study them from afar.."

Sorry but I find it unethical to do so, the fact these people struggle to even live, let alone exist means they would benefit from careful and staggered contact from the outside world.

Its the opposite of what most people feel, but we have a ethical duty to help and improve the situation of these people, not watch them from afar like some caged monkeys for our amusement.

Normally Thor, I agree with your viewpoint. But I really think in a case like this, it is best to let nature control their fate. Us trying to integrate them into our chaotic society, would be really no different than aliens swooping down from outer space and kidnapping one of us against our will. Technology so radical it cannot even be fathomed, cultural and emotional variables that could not be interpreted. Laws that likely would be impossible to understand or follow. For the record, the aliens could take me, whether they had good or bad intentions. The knowledge and technology you would likely see, would be worth dying a horrible death to witness, even for a brief moment. But not everyone shares that type of viewpoint.

As much as I love all my techno gadgets, and all of the amazing scientific discoveries we see daily, I almost envy the simple yet likely brutal, existence these people live. Many days I wish I could put the daily pressures of bills and responsibilities aside, and live a simple, pure existence like these tribesmen, free of the vanity and superficiality we endure on a daily basis.

The fact that these people can exist in an ever shrinking world is truly remarkable, almost a miracle. For the first time ever I am going to agree with Mikey, "If they are happy, what right do we have to intrude?"

[Sr. Mints]

Surprisingly, the video kind of bummed me out: I think we all know how this will end one day--that's probably why.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by pylon

Normally Thor, I agree with your viewpoint. But I really think in a case like this, it is best to let nature control their fate. Us trying to integrate them into our chaotic society, would be really no different than aliens swooping down from outer space and kidnapping one of us against our will. Technology so radical it cannot even be fathomed, cultural and emotional variables that could not be interpreted. Laws that likely would be impossible to understand or follow. For the record, the aliens could take me, whether they had good or bad intentions. The knowledge and technology you would likely see, would be worth dying a horrible death to witness, even for a brief moment. But not everyone shares that type of viewpoint.

As much as I love all my techno gadgets, and all of the amazing scientific discoveries we see daily, I almost envy the simple yet likely brutal, existence these people live. Many days I wish I could put the daily pressures of bills and responsibilities aside, and live a simple, pure existence like these tribesmen, free of the vanity and superficiality we endure on a daily basis.

The fact that these people can exist in an ever shrinking world is truly remarkable, almost a miracle. For the first time ever I am going to agree with Mikey, "If they are happy, what right do we have to intrude?"

In a Star Trek world (aka. Perfect world) this is a wonderful position to have. Somebody is going to meet up with them eventually. No point and believing otherwise. Better be it someone who will help them. Inoculations etc...will help these people survive

[BloodFetish]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Years ago I read about a Mayan tribe in Mexico that was "uncontacted" until the 1980s - supposedly the last native population in Mexico that was still on their own. Because of expanding tourism, the government decided to build a road through their land and since then, most have voluntarily opted to integrate into mainstream Mexican society.

I say give them the choice.

Joining the Mexican mainstream society after the government rams a road through your traditional territory is hardly voluntary.

Regarding the people of this article though, I think they're better off without any outside intervention. Without a doubt they are adapted to the junge and can gather the food and medicine they need for survival.

Attempting to "help" them is merely stroking our own ego. Seriously, what are we going to bring them? Religeon? Twinkies? Facebook?

[Vulcan]

There was a group of Alberta First Nations families who lived off on their own for many years. This was by choice though but I think we have to respect other cultures and don't take the attitude that ours is the end all and be all.

[CaptainCrunch]

[BloodFetish]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Inoculations etc...will help these people survive

Innoculations? You mean for tuberculosis, measles, polio, and all the other diseases they could potentially be exposed to once outsiders arrive?

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by BloodFetish

Innoculations? You mean for tuberculosis, measles, polio, and all the other diseases they could potentially be exposed to once outsiders arrive?

You got to excuse Hoz, he just wants to sell some old blankets.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by Thor

I'm curious, is it ethical to leave them be and have 50% of the newborns die at birth.... How about old age being 30 yrs old?

The reaction to these remote tribes is "we must study them from afar.."

Sorry but I find it unethical to do so, the fact these people struggle to even live, let alone exist means they would benefit from careful and staggered contact from the outside world.

Its the opposite of what most people feel, but we have a ethical duty to help and improve the situation of these people, not watch them from afar like some caged monkeys for our amusement.

The white man's burden?

[HPLovecraft]

I wonder if that's what aliens feel like flying around Earth in their UFOs!

[billybob123]

Originally Posted by HOZ

In a Star Trek world (aka. Perfect world) this is a wonderful position to have. Somebody is going to meet up with them eventually. No point and believing otherwise. Better be it someone who will help them. Inoculations etc...will help these people survive

Inoculations will probably just cause more trouble. There's a famous story where an antropologist, trying to help, administered the Edmonston Measles vaccine to a newly-contacted tribe to try to prevent them from dying from measles they catch from the contacters; it killed 15-20% of the people vaccinated. (Granted, this is quite the debate these days -- whether the evidence was forged or not)

That's the risk of totally naive populations being exposed to a live vaccine. (which, for those who care, include MMR, tuberculosis [which has no supporting evidence it works, but I digress] and polio among others)

Originally Posted by blankall

The tribes people are clearly freaked the @#@ out by the plane, and who knows what seeing that plane is going to do to their society.

They see airplanes all the time. They don't live in a bubble! I'm sure they just attribute it to the "metal birds" or something else.

Originally Posted by pylon

As much as I love all my techno gadgets, and all of the amazing scientific discoveries we see daily, I almost envy the simple yet likely brutal, existence these people live. Many days I wish I could put the daily pressures of bills and responsibilities aside, and live a simple, pure existence like these tribesmen, free of the vanity and superficiality we endure on a daily basis.

I agree - the first thing I think when I see these guys is how bored I get when the internet and cable are down.. ahh, I'll have to find a book to read. But these folks spend their days without anything - just each other and their day-to-day tasks. I'm glad I wasn't born in the 19th century!

Originally Posted by Thor

Sorry but I find it unethical to do so, the fact these people struggle to even live, let alone exist means they would benefit from careful and staggered contact from the outside world.

There's tribes that don't want contact and are quite hostile about it. I know of a few in the Amazon, but my favourite is the Sentinelese in the Andaman Islands. Not only do they not want to be contacted, they aggressively prevent people from doing so. I think they shot arrows at a helicopter checking on them to see if they survived the tsunami.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by BloodFetish

Innoculations? You mean for tuberculosis, measles, polio, and all the other diseases they could potentially be exposed to once outsiders arrive?

Yes Inoculations. aka. Vaccinations. What other thing would I be referring to?

It would be nice if they could continue to live undisturbed, but that is not going to happen. Better to try to make contact (even though that contact may end them) to help them rather than watch from afar and allow unscrupulous people come and slaughter them.

It is unfortunate but inevitable.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by BloodFetish

Joining the Mexican mainstream society after the government rams a road through your traditional territory is hardly voluntary.

Sure it is. No one was forcing them to use the road and move into towns.

There are still a few Mayans that live in the jungle by choice even though they have access to Mexican cities. Most choose to integrate though.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by billybob123

Inoculations will probably just cause more trouble. There's a famous story where an antropologist, trying to help, administered the Edmonston Measles vaccine to a newly-contacted tribe to try to prevent them from dying from measles they catch from the contacters; it killed 15-20% of the people vaccinated. (Granted, this is quite the debate these days -- whether the evidence was forged or not)

That's the risk of totally naive populations being exposed to a live vaccine. (which, for those who care, include MMR, tuberculosis [which has no supporting evidence it works, but I digress] and polio among others)



They see airplanes all the time. They don't live in a bubble! I'm sure they just attribute it to the "metal birds" or something else.




I agree - the first thing I think when I see these guys is how bored I get when the internet and cable are down.. ahh, I'll have to find a book to read. But these folks spend their days without anything - just each other and their day-to-day tasks. I'm glad I wasn't born in the 19th century!



There's tribes that don't want contact and are quite hostile about it. I know of a few in the Amazon, but my favourite is the Sentinelese in the Andaman Islands. Not only do they not want to be contacted, they aggressively prevent people from doing so. I think they shot arrows at a helicopter checking on them to see if they survived the tsunami.

I do see your point. Unlike that tribe on the Andaman Islands there is no way to isolate them from the world unless you want to dig a trench like the Corinth Canal around them.

So damned if you do and they are damned if you don't.

[Russic]

Originally Posted by drewboy12

wasnt this proved to be fake by the Brazilian government a few years ago.

Apparently the hoax was a hoax:

http://www.survivalinternational.org/news/3670

[troutman]

Reading more about it yesterday, it doesn't appear true that this tribe is "uncontacted", but it is still very interesting.

[Itse]

How would you know if a tribe is "uncontacted"?

I mean, wouldn't you have to go and ask them to know that?

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Are you assuming that these people are unhappy? It seems you are..

They don't know anything else outside of their own current reality. For all they know, high infant death rate is a fact of life.

I say leave them be.
If they want to join the masses some day, I'm sure they will be welcomed to do so.

OMG... is this really Mikey? Who took over your account...

Probably they most enlightened thing you've ever posted... there may be hope for you afterall.

[To Be Quite Honest]

Originally Posted by Thor

I'm curious, is it ethical to leave them be and have 50% of the newborns die at birth.... How about old age being 30 yrs old?

The reaction to these remote tribes is "we must study them from afar.."

Sorry but I find it unethical to do so, the fact these people struggle to even live, let alone exist means they would benefit from careful and staggered contact from the outside world.

Its the opposite of what most people feel, but we have a ethical duty to help and improve the situation of these people, not watch them from afar like some caged monkeys for our amusement.

Sounds a bit like a reservation project... Isn't that a black mark on our society? If they want help they can ask for it. While "think about the children is a logical and reasonable argument. I think it's neither your or my decision to make.

If their happy and they know it...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...tive_Americans

Just a qick search... Games on.

"While most still live on the reservations, they are considered some of the most poverty-ridden areas in the United States. Unemployment is 5 times higher than the general U. S. population, according to the 2002 Bureau of Indian Affairs. As with many defeated, oppressed people, they have suffered tremendously from the plagues of alcoholism and suicide. These were once a vibrant and resourceful people. They have been robbed, humiliated, and removed from all they knew. Though many have tried through the centuries to civilize,"

I'm not trying to say: "You don't know the N.A. Aboriginal story."

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Thor

I'm curious, is it ethical to leave them be and have 50% of the newborns die at birth.... How about old age being 30 yrs old?

The reaction to these remote tribes is "we must study them from afar.."

Sorry but I find it unethical to do so, the fact these people struggle to even live, let alone exist means they would benefit from careful and staggered contact from the outside world.

Its the opposite of what most people feel, but we have a ethical duty to help and improve the situation of these people, not watch them from afar like some caged monkeys for our amusement.

Despotism.

Most moral thing is to watch them from afar.