[Rumour] Hanifin, Bennett was offered to NJD for Hall, Vatanen

[Dan403]

I can believe that Hanafin and Bennett was the ask. I don't believe it was what we offered. Unless there were other parts involved.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Sandman

I appreciate the thread, but this rumor/scenario has been talked about many times in the Trade thread.

I'm glad this trade didn't happen, and quite frankly, it scares me. This is a young man's game-you can't keep giving up youth, especially for older UFAs.

I actually really appreciate threads like this. I hate the "this was discussed on page 185 of 8 million pages in mega thread X" stuff. Not a chance most of us are actually keeping up with the dozens, sometimes hundreds of posts a day in threads like that.

This is the first I'm hearing of this because it's now a thread for a big news piece, so thanks to the OP.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Dan403

I can believe that Hanafin and Bennett was the ask. I don't believe it was what we offered. Unless there were other parts involved.

A long term contract extension for Hall was a part involved that many seem to be glazing over.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by btimbit

If the deal was contingent on re-signing Hall as rumoured, then it's not that bad

Thing is, we don't really know that. Those pieces aren't contingent consideration, like draft picks, so a new contract would have had to have been agreed prior to the trade being consummated.

Are there any substantiated rumors that the Flames had spoken with Hall and gotten traction on a new contract? My guess is the Flames were hopeful, but in the end would have been acquiring a player with UFA rights.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Thing is, we don't really know that. Those pieces aren't contingent consideration, like draft picks, so a new contract would have had to have been agreed prior to the trade being consummated.

Are there any substantiated rumors that the Flames had spoken with Hall and gotten traction on a new contract? My guess is the Flames were hopeful, but in the end would have been acquiring a player with UFA rights.

NJ didn't want a hockey deal they wanted futures, so it never would have gotten to negotiating a contract. But from day 1 the rumors were the Flames wanted Hall with an extension.

Also it is extremely rare any rumor is substantiated, even the one you are discussing isn't substantiated.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by keenan87

So, thats Brodie, Jankowski, Hanifin, Bennett who all somewhat knew they were going to be traded if the other team didn't kibosh the deal.

Thats almost 20% of the roster.

Trade rumours are basically Water Cooler Chat in the NHL workplace. They realize what they sign up for.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I actually really appreciate threads like this. I hate the "this was discussed on page 185 of 8 million pages in mega thread X" stuff. Not a chance most of us are actually keeping up with the dozens, sometimes hundreds of posts a day in threads like that.

This is the first I'm hearing of this because it's now a thread for a big news piece, so thanks to the OP.

Agreed. Down with mega threads when there's a relevant topic that could be talked about in a specific thread for it.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Agreed. Down with mega threads when there's a relevant topic that could be talked about in a specific thread for it.

The draft is tomorrow and the draft thread is unusable. It’s 6 months old!

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

NJ didn't want a hockey deal they wanted futures, so it never would have gotten to negotiating a contract. But from day 1 the rumors were the Flames wanted Hall with an extension.

Also it is extremely rare any rumor is substantiated, even the one you are discussing isn't substantiated.

Well it seems that it got to the Flames making a rather concrete offer before talking to Hall.

I don't get your comment really. We are talking about a rumor and I'm suggesting that the deal likely wouldn't have involved a signed contract in place as part of the deal. I also don't believe that this amount of info would have gotten out if NJ had no interest in what Flames were offering. I think it's probable they had more than one offer and picked the one they liked the most.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Well it seems that it got to the Flames making a rather concrete offer before talking to Hall.

I don't get your comment really. We are talking about a rumor and I'm suggesting that the deal likely wouldn't have involved a signed contract in place as part of the deal. I also don't believe that this amount of info would have gotten out if NJ had no interest in what Flames were offering. I think it's probable they had more than one offer and picked the one they liked the most.

How does it seem that way? I have little doubt the offer, if it exists was "hey, we'll offer Bennett and Hanifin for Hall and Vatanen if Hall agrees to an extension ahead of time." It doesn't make sense to make an offer and not include that

[Strange Brew]

I don't believe NJ was allowing teams to negotiate with Hall. So this offer was made knowing you would be getting a player with UFA rights.

That's how I believe it went down. Doesn't mean the Flames didn't intend to re-sign him but that was never going to be a quick negotiation.

[Mass_nerder]

Even if we were able to work something out with Hall and the deal went through, it doesn't look great. However, I think a lot of that is because Bennett looked significantly better in the playoffs than he did around the time Hall was traded.
Bennett felt like a bit of a throw-in then, not now.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I don't believe NJ was allowing teams to negotiate with Hall. So this offer was made knowing you would be getting a player with UFA rights.

That's how I believe it went down. Doesn't mean the Flames didn't intend to re-sign him but that was never going to be a quick negotiation.

It's like you are choosing to believe one rumor, but ignore another part of the same rumor just so you can complain about the rumor of something that didn't happen

[rhino]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Hanifin for two UFAs? What the hell was Treliving smoking.



And I'm not even a big Hanifin fan.

It says what was discussed, not who made the offer and I am sure those players are only included if Calgary was able to agree to new deals prior to the trade

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

It's like you are choosing to believe one rumor, but ignore another part of the same rumor just so you can complain about the rumor of something that didn't happen

The rumor is pretty clear on what was “offered” and I explained why I doubt it was a contingent offer.

Can we let it go now? Not everyone has to see things the same way.

[powderjunkie]

IMO a signed Hall at anything more than 6yr+ x 8M+ (which it certainly would have been at the time) would have been a disastrous return for Hanifin.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

The rumor is pretty clear on what was “offered” and I explained why I doubt it was a contingent offer.

Can we let it go now? Not everyone has to see things the same way.

The point is you don't have a clue what was offered or contingent upon. I suspect you see it a certain why to fit a narrative about the GM.

The deal didn't happen and there has to be a reason for that. History shows Brad wouldn't do a deal like this without the extension in place.

[AustinL_NHL]

Pierre LeBrun reported shortly after the trade went down that the Flames had enticed the Devils with a "hockey offer" rather than for futures which made the Devils stop and think, but the Flames wanted the opportunity to negotiate with Hall's agent prior to any such trade before going through with it, which the Devil's didn't allow.

People thinking the Flames offered Hanifin and Bennett straight up with the possibility of losing both players to free agency are simply just people trying to find a way to point fingers at Treliving.

[Bonded]

I think it was even reported at the time that the Flames wanted an extension in place. Same with Stone when they were beat.


Not hard to say, I will offer x contingent on y happening. Happens all the time during any negotiation

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The point is you don't have a clue what was offered or contingent upon. I suspect you see it a certain why to fit a narrative about the GM.

The deal didn't happen and there has to be a reason for that. History shows Brad wouldn't do a deal like this without the extension in place.

The reason the deal didn't happen is that the Devils preferred the Coyotes offer. I thought that was fairly well established, no?

And at no point did I state what I believed was a certainty so please don't put words in my mouth.

Hamilton, Hanifin and Lindholm were all RFA's that signed after their trades. With regards to Hamilton, I recall Treliving stating explicitly that Boston had made him aware of Hamilton's salary demands and he therefore felt confident they would get something done easily. What history are you referring to where Treliving made a deal with an extension in place?

The Coyotes traded for Hall with no extension in place. The Flames were presumably competing with that offer and I guess trying to score Vatanan as well. Why do you see it as such an insult to Treliving that he felt confident he could sign Hall?