Friedman: Flames have begun extension talks with Gaudreau & Eichel speculation

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by talladega.25

Sorry but I disagree there.
Toronto
In:Ritchie, Kase, Bunting, and Kampf. Mrazek in Goal. The first three names are solid middle 6 F's and Mrazek will be a cheaper 1b option with similar metrics (2 years) than Freddie A.

Boston
In: Foligno, Haula, Nosek, Hall (Retained Asset) and Ullmark. None of those guys are a major over-pay. Maybe Ullmark but he was carrying a horrible team in Buffalo for a few years.

Florida
In: Reinhart, Thornton (doesn't move the needle on the ice, I agree) and Mountour (Retained Asset)

OK so is this an evaluation of over pay/under pay?
Again most of this paints a picture of teams making similar levels of changes.

[Drunk Uncle]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Anything short of career years from each of the teams top 4-5 forwards is going to lead to another pretty underwhelming season, even in a weak division. This team has a penchant for playing down to its opposition and will simply fall flat in the "easy" games and as is, the Flames will simply not match up with the top teams in the league in a 7 game playoff series even if they do play inspired playoff hockey.

Sutter and Blake Coleman will certainly make the team more competitive, but you can't just create timely goal scoring and determination this group has continually lacked for several years now. If the GM thinks coach #5 under his tenure is suddenly going to stir the drink enough to turn this team into a juggernaught he's sorely mistaken. If that isn't the goal, why is Treliving still here?

I don't think it will take 4 or 5 players having career years. In fact, with the commitment to defense that will be demanded, I would expect that nobody has a career year, and that we will win games with this commitment.

One thing I am sure of is that we will not see the Flames play down to other teams at anywhere near the same frequency we saw last year. This is Sutter's greatest strength as a coach.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by talladega.25

Sorry but I disagree there.
Toronto
In:Ritchie, Kase, Bunting, and Kampf. Mrazek in Goal. The first three names are solid middle 6 F's and Mrazek will be a cheaper 1b option with similar metrics (2 years) than Freddie A.

Boston
In: Foligno, Haula, Nosek, Hall (Retained Asset) and Ullmark. None of those guys are a major over-pay. Maybe Ullmark but he was carrying a horrible team in Buffalo for a few years.

Florida
In: Reinhart, Thornton (doesn't move the needle on the ice, I agree) and Mountour (Retained Asset)

Toronto got Ritchie - no better than Coleman, who seemingly is being poopooed here. They got Kase, who is a huge question mark - played 25 minutes last year and wasn't even worth a QO from Boston. Bunting was a tweener in AZ. And you ignore their losses - Hyman, Bogosian, Anderson (a wash with Mrazek, who only player 12 games last year). as one TO writer said:

"At this point, I don’t think Toronto’s current roster is as good as their most recent playoff roster"
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2021/...season-so-far/

[Erick Estrada]

I don’t really care about the Eichel stuff as I don’t think it’s going to happen with the Flames and more important to me is that it appears the plan may be to trade Gaudreau during the season or trade deadline.

[Drunk Uncle]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don’t really care about the Eichel stuff as I don’t think it’s going to happen with the Flames and more important to me is that it appears the plan may be to trade Gaudreau during the season or trade deadline.

Why do you think this is the plan? All I heard is that the Flames felt zero pressure to make a deal with the looming NTC prior to it kicking in.

Just wondering if this is your opinion or based on "rumblings" from sources.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don’t really care about the Eichel stuff as I don’t think it’s going to happen with the Flames and more important to me is that it appears the plan may be to trade Gaudreau during the season or trade deadline.

If Gaudreau is gone, we are going into a rebuild, whether it's labeled as so or not. This team without Gaudreau driving the offence is not very good.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Anything short of career years from each of the teams top 4-5 forwards is going to lead to another pretty underwhelming season, even in a weak division. This team has a penchant for playing down to its opposition and will simply fall flat in the "easy" games and as is, the Flames will simply not match up with the top teams in the league in a 7 game playoff series even if they do play inspired playoff hockey.

Sutter and Blake Coleman will certainly make the team more competitive, but you can't just create timely goal scoring and determination this group has continually lacked for several years now. If the GM thinks coach #5 under his tenure is suddenly going to stir the drink enough to turn this team into a juggernaught he's sorely mistaken. If that isn't the goal, why is Treliving still here?

The Flames don't need career years. They just need good two play and average offence across the roster.

Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Lindholm, Backlund, Mangiapane, Coleman, and Monahan all having just average seasons, puts the Flames offence near the top of the league. How many teams have 3 players at 70+ points and 4 players at 40-60 points. That kind of depth is actually pretty uncommon.

issue with the Flames is that they never seem to have everyone firing all at once.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

I'm kind of surprised that the Flames seem done given the earlier insider rumors of Tkachuk wanting out. Figured Treliving wants this resolved by the start of training camp, same as Eichel with the Sabres.

You don't want that kind of a distraction cloud hanging over your team. Especially considering that he's been in the conversation before for future Flames captain and face of the franchise.

Maybe it actually isn't an issue because it was a bunch of bs spewed by a former disgruntled player? I think if Tkachuk wanted out I think we would have heard something more about it by now. Maybe he was upset at the end of last year and maybe he came off as disgruntled but after some time has passed who knows what Tkachuk is thinking. For all we know he could have had conversations with Sutter since then or he could have just been pissed off the team didn't play up to expectations last year. We don't know.

[mile]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Maybe it actually isn't an issue because it was a bunch of bs spewed by a former disgruntled player? I think if Tkachuk wanted out I think we would have heard something more about it by now. Maybe he was upset at the end of last year and maybe he came off as disgruntled but after some time has passed who knows what Tkachuk is thinking. For all we know he could have had conversations with Sutter since then or he could have just been pissed off the team didn't play up to expectations last year. We don't know.

Think he's referring more to the inside info from a few weeks back from TBull8's source that was checked by a mod and had a track record of getting recent Flames signings/deals done.

I wonder if there are any updates there. That's probably the only thing that makes me still believe something can happen.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by talladega.25

Horrendous! Another abysmal off-season following up another lame season. I don't get this GM and this team STILL leaves a lot be desired. Loosing Gio and replacing him with Zadorov doesn't add up. Coleman is a nice add but the core still stinks.

That’s not really the message that came from Sutter last year. He seemed to think skill wasn’t the issue and commitment was.

Maybe he thinks he can change that.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by blankall

The Flames don't need career years. They just need good two play and average offence across the roster.

Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Lindholm, Backlund, Mangiapane, Coleman, and Monahan all having just average seasons, puts the Flames offence near the top of the league. How many teams have 3 players at 70+ points and 4 players at 40-60 points. That kind of depth is actually pretty uncommon.

issue with the Flames is that they never seem to have everyone firing all at once.

Other issue is that they have historically been a soft team. I think that was at least partially addressed with the offseason adds.

Coleman, Lewis, Zadorov, re-signed Ritchie all bring toughness.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Other issue is that they have historically been a soft team. I think that was at least partially addressed with the offseason adds.

Coleman, Lewis, Zadorov, re-signed Ritchie all bring toughness.

Another big issue has been lack of consistent effort/confidence too. Hopefully, Sutter is able to get the best out of the team.

In terms of actual toughness, I no longer consider this team especially soft. With the additions you've mentioned plus Lucic and Tkachuk in expanded roles (Tkachuk will likely be getting first line minutes and Sutter plays Lucic a lot), the team will be tougher to play against. There's no more entirely soft lines, like there were in the past. Teams won't be taking liberties on any of the lines, like they did in the past.

You could argue that the top 4 defence is soft. But even then Tanev and Andersson aren't especially soft. Even though Hanifin and Valimaki aren't the type to throw down, the still have size.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Goriders

That’s not really the message that came from Sutter last year. He seemed to think skill wasn’t the issue and commitment was.

Maybe he thinks he can change that.

Of course the coach is going to say that, what else should he say? This team is filled with bums who can’t play?

Skill is absolutely a problem on this roster. The biggest problem, in fact.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Goriders

That’s not really the message that came from Sutter last year. He seemed to think skill wasn’t the issue and commitment was.

Maybe he thinks he can change that.

Open to interpretation but I remember repetitive end of game pressers where Sutter wondered out loud if his group could play with the pace needed to win in the league. Then at his EOY press conference he dropped a bit of a bomb saying this group wasn't as good as they thought they were. Elliotte Friedman later noted that the Flames organization as a whole noticed that. My interpretation of Sutter's comments is that he didn't think he had a good enough roster to win.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by saillias

Open to interpretation but I remember repetitive end of game pressers where Sutter wondered out loud if his group could play with the pace needed to win in the league. Then at his EOY press conference he dropped a bit of a bomb saying this group wasn't as good as they thought they were. Elliotte Friedman later noted that the Flames organization as a whole noticed that. My interpretation of Sutter's comments is that he didn't think he had a good enough roster to win.

Yeah, Sutter definitely mentioned that this team isn’t skilled enough to play the way they thought they could/to be a top team. I remember thinking “whoa, that’s a pretty clear shot at the roster that has been assembled”.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Yeah, Sutter definitely mentioned that this team isn’t skilled enough to play the way they thought they could/to be a top team. I remember thinking “whoa, that’s a pretty clear shot at the roster that has been assembled”.

That is my read of it.

Now I am also in the camp that Sutter is not wholly Treliving's choice as coach and I know some people present articulate reasons to the contrary.

[Enoch Root]

I always read Sutter's comments as 'they need to play MY way to be a top team', not 'they CAN'T be a top team'

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by blankall

Another big issue has been lack of consistent effort/confidence too. Hopefully, Sutter is able to get the best out of the team.

In terms of actual toughness, I no longer consider this team especially soft. With the additions you've mentioned plus Lucic and Tkachuk in expanded roles (Tkachuk will likely be getting first line minutes and Sutter plays Lucic a lot), the team will be tougher to play against. There's no more entirely soft lines, like there were in the past. Teams won't be taking liberties on any of the lines, like they did in the past.

You could argue that the top 4 defence is soft. But even then Tanev and Andersson aren't especially soft. Even though Hanifin and Valimaki aren't the type to throw down, the still have size.

Zadorov is probably in the top 4 as well. If they add Stone again he’s also not a slouch.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by saillias

Open to interpretation but I remember repetitive end of game pressers where Sutter wondered out loud if his group could play with the pace needed to win in the league. Then at his EOY press conference he dropped a bit of a bomb saying this group wasn't as good as they thought they were. Elliotte Friedman later noted that the Flames organization as a whole noticed that. My interpretation of Sutter's comments is that he didn't think he had a good enough roster to win.

I took all of that to mean he thought they were skilled enough. But he also thought they were a bunch of snowflakes and didn’t work hard enough to be a top caliber team. Which was definitely true. Not true the last 10 games or so though.

Guess we’ll soon see if the tinkering was enough if in fact the are done making moves.

[dino7c]

Sutter said similar things about the Kings...his point is they don't have the talent just to throw their sticks on the ice and win...they need to work for it each and every nights.

It may be partially true but Sutter is never going to come out and say how awesome his players are...he usually says stuff like that about the other team.