Israel declares war on Hamas

[WCW Nitro]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I'm guessing you didn't read his full statement, what he has suggested is without a doubt the best plan for Gazan's, assuming your concern is for individual people rather than sacrificing the population in order to prove some abstract unobtainable political point at the expense of individuals, he isnt suggesting forcing Gazans to emigrate he is saying those that want too should be given every possible help as Gaza is massively over populated

No, she is saying that Israel should rule Gaza and the Palestinians should be displaced.

[WCW Nitro]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I'm guessing you didn't read his full statement, what he has suggested is without a doubt the best plan for Gazan's, assuming your concern is for individual people rather than sacrificing the population in order to prove some abstract unobtainable political point at the expense of individuals, he isnt suggesting forcing Gazans to emigrate he is saying those that want too should be given every possible help as Gaza is massively over populated

No, she is saying that Israel should rule Gaza and the Palestinians should be displaced.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

No, she is saying that Israel should rule Gaza and the Palestinians should be displaced.

what if the Palestinians want to leave? how is that a bad thing?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Or maybe he decided to slink off for a while in the hope that people would forget the pretty much united disgust at his repulsive, warped, sick bloodlust desire to slaughter innocent women and infants?

I feel like it was this one. Some of the most disgusting things I've ever read on here. Just heartbreaking feelings (or lack there of) towards other human beings, by pointman.

[WCW Nitro]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

what if the Palestinians want to leave? how is that a bad thing?

Lol, unbelievable.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Language

I’m an ardent Israeli supporter, but there is no doubt there are fringe and extreme elements in the Israeli government. This is no different than in any other government.

Posting this and using it as a pegboard to claim this is an overwhelming view would be like me saying all Palestinians are terrorists just like Hamas.

I wouldn’t necessarily take some of these comments as a sign that this is some overwhelming viewpoint shared by many. As a reminder, prior to Oct 7th, the majority of Israeli citizens still favored a two-state solution.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How would suggesting that a statement from a government representative is representative of the government’s views be anything like calling all Palestinians terrorists?

It’s not even in the ballpark.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

How would suggesting that a statement from a government representative is representative of the government’s views anything like calling all Palestinians terrorists?

It’s not even in the ballpark.

Hamas is the government. You don't think there are Hamas (or even Palestinian Authority) officials, who have said far worse?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by blankall

Hamas is the government. You don't think there are Hamas (or even Palestinian Authority) officials, who have said far worse?

Of course they have, but feel free to point out what that has to do with my post.

[Language]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

How would suggesting that a statement from a government representative is representative of the government’s views be anything like calling all Palestinians terrorists?

It’s not even in the ballpark.

I feel like you missed my point?

WCW’s post suggested that one MK’s view was representative of the entire government’s and Israeli society opinion.

As Hamas is the governing party in Gaza, it is akin to saying that Hamas’s mandate to kill Jews is the prevailing thought amongst all Palestinians.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Language]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

Lol, unbelievable.

I’m assuming that given the opportunity, a majority of Gazans would gladly welcome immigrating to better their life.

Why don’t any of the Arab countries supporting the Palestinian cause, offer to take in any Palestinians via some sort of organized immigration process?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Language

I’m assuming that given the opportunity, a majority of Gazans would gladly welcome immigrating to better their life.

Why don’t any of the Arab countries supporting the Palestinian cause, offer to take in any Palestinians via some sort of organized immigration process?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You would have been the guy in the 70s and 80s looking around at all the Khmer Rouge refugees coming to Canada and asking why China and the Philippines weren't taking them in eh

[Language]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

You would have been the guy in the 70s and 80s looking around at all the Khmer Rouge refugees coming to Canada and asking why China and the Philippines weren't taking them in eh

I don’t understand the comparison, sorry. I’m not too familiar with the dynamics surrounding Khmer Rouge and China/Philippines, and why they would or wouldn’t have been accepting those refugees.

When Assad was butchering Syrians, I was supportive of Canada taking in Syrian refugees. And other neighboring countries like Turkey also took in a size-able number.

I’m simply saying that if other Arab countries truly cared about the Palestinian plight, they would open a path for emigration for those that wanted to leave Gaza, if they met the respective country’s immigration criteria. What is wrong in saying that? Why should Palestinians be stuck in Gaza in a hopeless plight? Even as an Israel supporter, it’s not like I don’t want a better future for anyone suffering.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WCW Nitro]

Originally Posted by Language

I’m assuming that given the opportunity, a majority of Gazans would gladly welcome immigrating to better their life.

Why don’t any of the Arab countries supporting the Palestinian cause, offer to take in any Palestinians via some sort of organized immigration process?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's like asking why don't the allies of Israel take in Israelis so they don't have to worry about Hamas anymore.It is incredible what some here are ok with it when it comes to the Palestinians.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

Lol, unbelievable.

No the unbelievable part is where you dont actually care about Palestinians and their hopes and dreams, you seem to mirror every Muslim country, you view them as just cannon fodder in an unwinnable war, they can all either die or live in hopeless endless generational poverty to prove a political point that you personally don't want to fight for, worse than that you dont even want to extend them the ability to emigrate to have a better life, something I assume you yourself have done.

This is in microcosm the history of Palestinians and the rest of the Muslim world since 1948, Syria, Egypt Iraq and now Iran have constantly set Palestinians up as the sorry dupes that always pay the price for Islamic adventurism and anti-western rhetoric constantly encouraging them to hit out at Israel and the US when the only outcome is Palestinians die, lose land and become poorer, promising that you are all right behind them when you never are, in a 100 years time 5 generations of kids in Gaza will grow up with nothing, in endless grinding poverty in the 'worlds largest open air prison' as the Muslim world constantly portrays it all the while being told 'no don't tunnel out, accept early release or ask for parole, you stay there while we 'allied' Muslims all live lives of comparative luxury'

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

That's like asking why don't the allies of Israel take in Israelis so they don't have to worry about Hamas anymore.It is incredible what some here are ok with it when it comes to the Palestinians.

Well here's the thing, Israel is winning, Israelis have a better life in Israel than they would in Canada, they dont have generations of wasted endless grinding oppression as their only future, they dont need to move to have a reasonable chance at happiness.

Gazan's do, their choice is poverty, death or migration, is it a fair choice, no, but it's their only choice, Palestinians in the West Bank might just get enough land back in the future to create some kind of poverty-stricken version of Jordan, Gaza wont ever have that opportunity, right now Gaza is as big as it will ever be

[WCW Nitro]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

No the unbelievable part is where you dont actually care about Palestinians and their hopes and dreams, you seem to mirror every Muslim country, you view them as just cannon fodder in an unwinnable war, they can all either die or live in hopeless endless generational poverty to prove a political point that you personally don't want to fight for, worse than that you dont even want to extend them the ability to emigrate to have a better life, something I assume you yourself have done.

This is in microcosm the history of Palestinians and the rest of the Muslim world since 1948, Syria, Egypt Iraq and now Iran have constantly set Palestinians up as the sorry dupes that always pay the price for Islamic adventurism and anti-western rhetoric constantly encouraging them to hit out at Israel and the US when the only outcome is Palestinians die, lose land and become poorer, promising that you are all right behind them when you never are, in a 100 years time 5 generations of kids in Gaza will grow up with nothing, in endless grinding poverty in the 'worlds largest open air prison' as the Muslim world constantly portrays it all the while being told 'no don't tunnel out, accept early release or ask for parole, you stay there while we 'allied' Muslims all live lives of comparative luxury'

So, in any conflict if the stronger party wants to kick people out and take over land we should be ok with it, right?

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

That's like asking why don't the allies of Israel take in Israelis so they don't have to worry about Hamas anymore.It is incredible what some here are ok with it when it comes to the Palestinians.

I know what you are getting at, but the point is valid. During the Syrian Civil War, many that wanted a different (better) life left to go to places like Germany, Canada etc. If I was raising a family in Gaza...I would likewise want them to be anywhere but there. I am sure many would want to stay and many would want to go. Honestly...if you had the choice between a refugee camp in Gaza or living in Cairo, Riyadh, Berlin or Ottawa, where would you rather be??

Normal civilian Palestinian people get used by all sides (including your arguement) as pawns.

For one side they reserve the space and act as a way to funnel money to keep the Jews out.

By the other side as a means of appeasing the guilt ridden western world and thereby again channel exorbitant amount of money for "security" purposes.

If people who truly care about what is going on to get off their talking points and start focusing not on Hamas, not on Netanyahu, not on Israel, but actually just on the individual or family that wants a safe life to do the best for their family. If you build around that principle, independent of 1 state, 2 state, 5 state, whatever state...you might actually get somewhere, because the extremists on both sides would be dismissed. Until the residents can align on this and the governments/terror organizations stop making money off this...nothing will change.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

So, in any conflict if the stronger party wants to kick people out and take over land we should be ok with it, right?

at no point is anyone saying the situation is anything other than tragic but it is not ever going to change, and even if it could that would be at the cost of several million dead Israeli's, there is no 'two state solution' there is 'keep what you have at best and even that is iffy' what we are ok with is no more relevant to Israel than it is to Russia

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Language

I feel like you missed my point?

WCW’s post suggested that one MK’s view was representative of the entire government’s and Israeli society opinion.

As Hamas is the governing party in Gaza, it is akin to saying that Hamas’s mandate to kill Jews is the prevailing thought amongst all Palestinians.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No it didn’t.

[WCW Nitro]

Originally Posted by tkflames

I know what you are getting at, but the point is valid. During the Syrian Civil War, many that wanted a different (better) life left to go to places like Germany, Canada etc. If I was raising a family in Gaza...I would likewise want them to be anywhere but there. I am sure many would want to stay and many would want to go. Honestly...if you had the choice between a refugee camp in Gaza or living in Cairo, Riyadh, Berlin or Ottawa, where would you rather be??

Normal civilian Palestinian people get used by all sides (including your arguement) as pawns.

For one side they reserve the space and act as a way to funnel money to keep the Jews out.

By the other side as a means of appeasing the guilt ridden western world and thereby again channel exorbitant amount of money for "security" purposes.

If people who truly care about what is going on to get off their talking points and start focusing not on Hamas, not on Netanyahu, not on Israel, but actually just on the individual or family that wants a safe life to do the best for their family. If you build around that principle, independent of 1 state, 2 state, 5 state, whatever state...you might actually get somewhere, because the extremists on both sides would be dismissed. Until the residents can align on this and the governments/terror organizations stop making money off this...nothing will change.

Of course the Palestinians would be better off elsewhere, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't criticize Israeli officials, and there are several, who say displacement is their aim.