Russia invades Ukraine

[Itse]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

This is what my thinking is. Too many people are dying and the US/EU needs to do something. This is a just cause.

The US/EU are IMO doing quite a lot already.

The sanctions are incredibly rough for starters, Russia will be severely hurting (and so will a lot of other economies).

Second, there is a lot of military equipment flowing in to Ukraine right now, which is what Ukraine needs to fight this war. They could obviously use tanks ans other heavier equipment, and they could use air support, but other than that they don't really need more boots on the ground.

The Russian advance has mostly halted for now. Zelenskiy has even been making videos from his office again, which means the situation around Kyiv likely isn't as acutely threatening as it was a week ago.

The Ukrainian army might not be the greatest fighting force ever, but the only thing Russia has on them in this fight is equipment, and the disparity seems smaller than predicted.

It's really unclear how long Russia can actually afford this war, what other forces they can actually pull in, what's the actual quality of the forces they have in reserve, and what the level of morale among Russian troops is.

As things are looking now, this war looks very winnable, assuming Ukrainians have the stomach for a prolonged war on their soil, assuming the west can keep the necessary quality and quantity of hardware coming, and assuming Russian morale is low and their ability to bring in new troops very limited.

Yes that's a lot of assumptions, but I think for now you have to let things develop for a bit to know more.

Escalating the conflict by bringing in western troops or air support would in no way guarantee fewer civilian casualties.

The best way to get Russia out of Ukraine with minimal bloodshed is to drive Russia into internal chaos and/or to motivate someone to oust Putin. So that's what the west is trying to do. We have to wait a bit to see if it works.

[djsFlames]

Need to put up enticing rewards for someone to end him. And hopefully one of the individuals dealing with him directly takes the bait.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

The price is very very high for the EU/US to "do something".

The best thing they can do is pour weapons into Ukraine.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see the Russian war machine destroyed by the West, but the repercussions of that is more than we can live with.

To bring this to a macro level, would you go and fight? Do you consider this a just war?

For me I wouldn't go and fight. That is what I told the guy that contacted my about going.

Over the last few days I have tried to temper my opinions on this War. I have been looking at it through a 17-23 yr old's eyes which hasn't been the best.

I understand what you are saying but bombing maternity hospitals is crossing a line.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Nothing.

You don’t risk 80-90mm lives in nuclear war for Ukraine.

Sorry, I know it’s callous, harsh whatever you want to call it, but you do what you can do with sanctioning and hope for the best.

That mistake was made in 1938, If you allow Ukraine to fall Putin won't stop.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

That mistake was made in 1938, If you allow Ukraine to fall Putin won't stop.

Russia has nowhere else to go in Europe without attacking EU and/or NATO members. Plus this invasion has been a disaster. Russia is not going to be able to hold any territory, besides the pro-Russian eastern provinces, that already had puppet Russian governments in place before this started

That being said the USA should be getting places like Finland and Poland their F-35 orders ASAP.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

That mistake was made in 1938, If you allow Ukraine to fall Putin won't stop.

so you're equating what the west is doing to the idea of Chamberlain appeasing Hitler regarding Czechoslovakia?

Explain that one, as I don't think they are anything alike. Nobody is appeasing Putin at all, and the west has taken a lot of action.


Besides didn't history come to the view that Chamberlain was shrewd in that his actions, as it gave Britain an extra year to prepare for the war he knew was coming regardless?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

I understand what you are saying but bombing maternity hospitals is crossing a line.

For the first time ever, humans are experiencing what a modern war between two near-peer countries in real-time through social media and 24-hour news.

War is pure horror. It has always been so.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

The price is very very high for the EU/US to "do something".

The best thing they can do is pour weapons into Ukraine.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see the Russian war machine destroyed by the West, but the repercussions of that is more than we can live with.

To bring this to a macro level, would you go and fight? Do you consider this a just war?

For me I wouldn't go and fight. That is what I told the guy that contacted my about going.

Over the last few days I have tried to temper my opinions on this War. I have been looking at it through a 17-23 yr old's eyes which hasn't been the best.

I would say, as a younger person with absolutely zero military experience (but the ability to shoot a gun), that I definitely at least feel the pull of duty to go and do something. It’s definitely not going to happen. I won’t be getting on a plane to Ukraine, but I have huge respect for those who are and kind of wish I had more of that in me as we go through this here. I’ve gone to protests. Ive been giving money when I can. But this one really does feel different than the other wars that has happened in our life times. A lot of the rest has been dictators vs dictators with some proxy wars for good measure, but this is the first one that I can remember thinking this really needs to be stopped any way shape or form. That it literally does feel like Putin is just going full ham at the end of his life and truly doesn’t GAF. Dudes a psycho. And no doubt it my mind he actively wants to use a nuke. He’s just begging for a reason. He’s had them there his whole tenure, you don’t think he’s just itching for it? He obviously doesn’t care about the indiscriminate death of civilians so why not?

I don’t know, it’s hard to articulate this feeling like there’s nothing after this. I think my whole generation is dealing with a feeling of dread about so
Many things. Pandemic(s), climate crisis, AI, insurmountable corruption of basically all industry, nuclear war. Own a house? Have a kid? Even if we could, why? Any way you shake it the future is looking tough. Either none of this changes and we’re all boned, or some of it does change causing massive unrest anyways. Might as well fight for something that matters on the way out.

Sorry for the rant. Like I said, it’s hard to articulate.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Nothing.

You don’t risk 80-90mm lives in nuclear war for Ukraine.

Sorry, I know it’s callous, harsh whatever you want to call it, but you do what you can do with sanctioning and hope for the best.

80-90 million? 6-7 billion. No need for the bomb to drop on your head for you to die from nuclear war.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

80-90 million? 6-7 billion. No need for the bomb to drop on your head for you to die from nuclear war.

Nuclear winter should counter climate change though, so maybe it’s not all bad….

[wwkayaker]

So, with everything going on someone decided it was a good idea to lob missiles at a USA embassy in Iraq.

[wwkayaker]

Smooth operator,

https://twitter.com/user/status/1502758799861497863

[FlameOn]

MOD map updates for the day. MOD has updated locations of nuclear power plants on the map as well as likely avenues of the Russian advances. Ukrainian counter offensives are pulling Russian forces from the Kyiv offensive and to secure lines of communications instead. Russians have also launched more air raids and artillery strikes in the last day against major Ukrainian metro centres, which will likely increase as Russian military commanders become more frustrated with the rate of the advance/Ukranian resistance. Ukrainian counter attacks have knocked out the the command structure of the a couple of units of the Russian military including Colonel Sergey Karasev, Maj. Gen. Andrei Sukhovetsky of the 31st air brigade which participated in the invasion of Crimea, and Major General Andrei Kolesnikov, Commander, 29th Combined Arms Army, Eastern Military District. This makes 3 KIA Russian generals in less than a week along with Maj. Gen. Vitaly Gerasimov earlier. Russia's MD Group has advanced further into Ukraine from the boarder, but otherwise minimal changes in the front lines.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1502633349717938178

https://twitter.com/user/status/1502695843618557966

Larger map

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_R...ion_of_Ukraine

From AP and Foreign Policy

https://twitter.com/user/status/1502752247079489549

https://twitter.com/user/status/1502747222571683841

Meanwhile Americans approve more more Stingers and Javelins

https://twitter.com/user/status/1502777764142854158

Article on killed generals
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/russ...illed-ukraine/

[dammage79]

Russia would be extremely stupid to hit incoming shipments. Unless they want to goad Nato into a fight.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Russia would be extremely stupid to hit incoming shipments. Unless they want to goad Nato into a fight.

That would be 2022 Pearl Harbor.

[FlamesAddiction]

I am kind of curious, but is there a reason why sending weapons needs to be announced publicly, especially on Twitter?

It seems like it would be better to keep it under wraps.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Russia would be extremely stupid to hit incoming shipments. Unless they want to goad Nato into a fight.

Russia supplies all of America's enemies with weapons. I'm also assuming that the handoffs will occur outside of Ukrainian territory. Attacking American soldiers in another country would must certainly be an escalation and a breach of the cold war rules.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I am kind of curious, but is there a reason why sending weapons needs to be announced publicly, especially on Twitter?

It seems like it would be better to keep it under wraps.

Solidarity and PR? If you're going to gift $200 million, you probably want to take credit for it.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I am kind of curious, but is there a reason why sending weapons needs to be announced publicly, especially on Twitter?

It seems like it would be better to keep it under wraps.

Its more the press putting it on Twitter, though mind you Blinken did hold a press conference.

[Brendone]

Guessing major funding approvals have to get house / senate approval, making it public knowledge?