Johnny Gaudreau: Trade or Keep?

[GranteedEV]

Trading Johnny would be as silly as last year's Blues trading Tarasenko

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Gaudreau is the first real elite-level player this team has had since Iginla departed. Yeah, he is small. Yeah, the odds are against him. However, we have seen him battle those odds and succeed. The first time he falters, suddenly he isn't good enough? Suddenly the questions started arising as to whether we could win with him or not? Were we always waiting for him to fail and jump all over him or something?



Gaudreau IS a guy you win with, and added to that, he is on a sweet ass contract. You keep him and you try to add to him.


I think people are way over thinking things at times. Want a Stanley Cup Championship? You accumulate as many impact players as possible. Stop thinking of it as 'building around a player or two' like we thought with Iginla. So Gaudreau has had some tough times in the playoffs when things tighten up - well, maybe other guys should step up more, especially on different lines. Maybe the coach should be able to counter certain things too?



Maybe some of you don't really remember all that far back to that '89 team. Maybe of you weren't alive then, or were too young to remember. For those of you that were, who was the guy you had to stop? Who was the focus of the other team's defensive strategies?


I will tell you. NOBODY. Not one single player.


Sure, they tried to key-in on MacInnis at the point. However, you had Roberts, Nieuwendyk, Loob, Mullen, Gilmour, MacInnis, Suter (and then Ramage in the playoffs), plus a host of really good role players who contributed up and down the lineup on forward and defence.


Gaudreau is NOT a 'problem', and he is certainly someone that you DO win with. He - just like Gretzky and Badger Bob's playbook - can't be the focus all the time. You need to add to him.



Ward needs to figure out how to get his lines rolling. How to develop chemistry in the top 3 lines and have them all chipping in on different nights regularly. There ABSOLUTELY has to be a bona fide #2 scoring line for the Flames that can also play a 200ft game. I love Backlund, and he does fine as a scorer (though this year he is snakebitten, but hardly unique this season after you look at other players and their production). For this team to win, I argue that someone needs to supplant him as the 2nd line scoring centre with high defensive abilities, and have him become the elite 3rd line centre.



For this team to win, guys like Bennett, Mangiapane, Dube, whomever else on the team or in the pipeline - some of these guys have to take a step forward and create more out there.


The problem is not just Gaudreau. Flames decades ago managed to limit the best player ever in the game during that '86 playoff series when Gretzky managed less than 2pts/game (which was really limiting him). Was it Gretzky's fault?


Gaudreau is an elite-level talent. He doesn't seem to be a distraction to the team, or bad in the room, or 'un-coachable', or anything else. A team needs as many elite-level talents as possible, and they need to fit them under a salary cap. Gaudreau is an elite-level talent, and his contract is a bargain that helps the Flames fit talent on the roster. He is NOT the problem. The Flames just need more guys to step up and/or add to that talent pool.


Sure, I would be ok with trading Gaudreau away in a trade that sees the Flames add talent, but I just don't see it, especially with Gaudreau's cap hit. You are either going to sacrifice the cap substantially by swapping elite level talents, or you are going to do a 'quality for quantity' trade with perhaps some of that quantity being a hope and a prayer that they willl develop into elite level talents. If something really good opens up, sure, I will be fine with that - whatever helps the team legitimately improve.


I just think it is absolute hogwash that 'you can't win with Gaudreau' or that 'he is a problem'. The problem is that this team needs to find a way to step up.

Gaudreau could walk in 3 years. That is a real possibility. Trading him now makes the most sense unless you think the Flames are winning a cup in the next year or two. If you wait until he has a year left then the return is peanuts. At which time you really just set the franchise back. Being pro active may be the best move fur the future of the franchise and a chance at the Stanley Cup.

IF he does re-sign he's going to be making a ton of money. At his contract now I agree he's a steal but once he starts making 9-10 million I don't think so. Especially if were finding out he isn't the go to guy and more of complimentary piece.

The talk of trading Gaudreau is very logical. The Flames need be thinking long term and long term I think Gaudreaus value only decreases and hurts our chance at a Cup.

[Manhattanboy]

I am personally against trading JG but would not be surprised. No one would have suspected at this point during his contract that he would have fallen off the cliff so drastically.

[GioforPM]

I wouldn’t rule out trading Gaudreau, for contract or other overarching team management issues. But I wouldn’t do it because he’s underperforming this year.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

You lost me at the sens trading Brady.....then you lost me again when you proposed the cheapest team in the league taking a cap dump. Give your head a shake.

Yes, because the Sens would not trade one good young player for a bunch of good young players.
Someone's head needs a shake but isn't mine. And Ghost is not exactly a cap dump. Thanks for coming out.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I wouldn’t rule out trading Gaudreau, for contract or other overarching team management issues. But I wouldn’t do it because he’s underperforming this year.

Yeah, the only reason to trade Gaudreau is to improve the team. That would require a significant return.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Trading Johnny would be as silly as last year's Blues trading Tarasenko

Apples and oranges. Tarasenko isn’t a perceived flight risk and had 5 years remaining on his deal at the time. Johnny is under team control for 2 seasons after this one, so the Flames have a very narrow window to trade him before his value begins to plummet.

If Treliving believes Johnny has no intention of staying in Calgary he’d be a fool not to explore trade options. The Flames are notorious for dragging things out when tough decisions have to be made and that’s why they’re so consistently starved for assets.

[BurningSteel]

"If Treliving believes Johnny has no intention of staying in Calgary he’d be a fool not to explore trade options. The Flames are notorious for dragging things out when tough decisions have to be made and that’s why they’re so consistently starved for assets."


Not sure why I cant quote mrdonkey?


THIS is the only way I would move Gaudreau. I think if the flames move him otherwise its going to haunt this team for years as he will return to his form at some point. St Louis, Savard, hell through Hull in there too.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by BurningSteel

"If Treliving believes Johnny has no intention of staying in Calgary he’d be a fool not to explore trade options. The Flames are notorious for dragging things out when tough decisions have to be made and that’s why they’re so consistently starved for assets."


Not sure why I cant quote mrdonkey?


THIS is the only way I would move Gaudreau. I think if the flames move him otherwise its going to haunt this team for years as he will return to his form at some point. St Louis, Savard, hell through Hull in there too.

The Hull trade played a role in the 1989 Stanley Cup win. If moving Gaudreau culminates in a championship, then you have to trade him. It's possible that trading Gaudreau contributes to making the team better.

[BurningSteel]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

The Hull trade played a role in the 1989 Stanley Cup win. If moving Gaudreau culminates in a championship, then you have to trade him. It's possible that trading Gaudreau contributes to making the team better.

Fair enough. I just dont think the flames win many trades.

[taxbuster]

So is JG underperforming to force the Flames' hand?

If not, and if he doesn't improve this year or next then what?

Frankly I believe he is thinking too much. He's not fast with the puck any more which is why he gives it away so often. He dithers for that extra quarter-second and .. it's gone.

Granted that his usual tricks have been figured out by other teams and they cover him well, but he hasn't generated much in the way of new moves also. He needs to work to return to his instincts, which are what got him here in the first place.

If he can't do that, his trade value drops immeasurably and his value as a player in monetary return to himself follows that. $9-10M in a couple of years? Not for someone who isn't productive.

[FiveSeven]

Who says Johnny wont re-sign here. Also, maybe he has a down year, so what. Hes too good not to figure it out and come back stronger.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

The Hull trade played a role in the 1989 Stanley Cup win. If moving Gaudreau culminates in a championship, then you have to trade him. It's possible that trading Gaudreau contributes to making the team better.

in my opinion the Hull trade is over-credited with the Flames cup win, since the two things happened in sequence. it's entirely possible that generational scoring talent Hull could have put in sufficient goals to make up for the lack of Ramage on the back-end...and maybe even got the Flames another cup or two after as his dominance grew.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

So is JG underperforming to force the Flames' hand?

No chance. If he was intentionally tanking his play to force the team's hand, then I cannot believe that he would looks as constantly frustrated as he does.

If not, and if he doesn't improve this year or next then what?...

So, this is all looking way, way too far ahead. I think if Gaudreau continues to struggle up to the TD, then management likely starts to look seriously into moving him, if they have not already by that point. But I also think that any discussions with Gaudreau regarding his long-term outlook with the Flames will already have Treliving in a position to move him if necessary as early as this summer. An let's be clear here—this is not a terrible position for the team in which to find itself: Gaudreau is in the prime of his career, completely under team control, and with more than two years left on a terrific deal.

There is still LOTS of time to work through this, and still with LOTS of options.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

in my opinion the Hull trade is over-credited with the Flames cup win, since the two things happened in sequence. it's entirely possible that generational scoring talent Hull could have put in sufficient goals to make up for the lack of Ramage on the back-end...and maybe even got the Flames another cup or two after as his dominance grew.

Right, but what happened happened. It is also entirely possible that the Flames had not won in 1989 had they not moved Hull for Ramage. The hypotheticals are not really helpful.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by FiveSeven

Who says Johnny wont re-sign here. Also, maybe he has a down year, so what. Hes too good not to figure it out and come back stronger.

There's a preponderance of evidence that Johnny won't be re-signing here. It's not 100%, but it's high, high probability. The guy wants to be out east, I know we all like Calgary because we were born here or moved from some place like Sask or Mantioba but it's just different for someone not from around here. His family, his buddies, and his lifestyle all line up better with places like Boston Philly and NY. We've honestly been incredibly lucky that he even came to play here given the backdoor route these NCAA guys can take after playing four years.

The Flames have a window set up to try and achieve what they can with this core, and that window is clearly the 2.5 years left with Gaudreau under contract as the team's most talented player. If management feels like this is not the group to win the Cup with then changes have to be made, and as the player that will fetch the most in return while also being the one player on the team that I would bet my life on not re-signing here you have to explore what you can get. A trade done right would allow the Flames to reload with an experienced-ish core of Monahan, Lindholm, Hanifin, and Tkachuk complimented with high-end and most importantly cost controlled young assets.

[bax]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

There's a preponderance of evidence that Johnny won't be re-signing here. It's not 100%, but it's high, high probability. The guy wants to be out east, I know we all like Calgary because we were born here or moved from some place like Sask or Mantioba but it's just different for someone not from around here. His family, his buddies, and his lifestyle all line up better with places like Boston Philly and NY. We've honestly been incredibly lucky that he even came to play here given the backdoor route these NCAA guys can take after playing four years.

The Flames have a window set up to try and achieve what they can with this core, and that window is clearly the 2.5 years left with Gaudreau under contract as the team's most talented player. If management feels like this is not the group to win the Cup with then changes have to be made, and as the player that will fetch the most in return while also being the one player on the team that I would bet my life on not re-signing here you have to explore what you can get. A trade done right would allow the Flames to reload with an experienced-ish core of Monahan, Lindholm, Hanifin, and Tkachuk complimented with high-end and most importantly cost controlled young assets.

The fans need to stop worrying about trading Gaudreau today because they are scared he will walk as a free agent. Everything in this thread using that as a reason is based on speculation.

It is Treliving's job to work with Gaudreau on this- I can't imagine this being a "wait and see" type situation like Tavares, if Gaudreau doesn't want to re-sign here I'm sure he will make that clear before his current deal expires.

As I said in the other thread Gaudreau has 204 points in his last 191 games. That's better than every single player in the league over that span save for 11 players. It's better than Pastrnak, Panarin, Wheeler, Tavares, Malkin, Huberdeau, Kessel, Rantanen, Kuznetsov, Eichel, Marner, Seguin, Kopitar. The list goes on. Trade him on the last year of his deal when you have confirmed he won't be re-signing.

Until then, business as usual. Continue to bring in good players and try to win. It's still too early to be talking about trading Gaudreau.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by bax

It is Treliving's job to work with Gaudreau on this- I can't imagine this being a "wait and see" type situation like Tavares, if Gaudreau doesn't want to re-sign here I'm sure he will make that clear before his current deal expires.

Why would Gaudreau do that? In today's NHL, star players walk a team all the way to UFA and then let the bids come in. Did Tavares make it clear to the Isles that he didn't want to re-sign? Did Karlsson tell the Sens his plans? How about Hall and NJ - do you think he's told them if he plans to re-sign or not? Why would a player give up that leverage?

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by bax

The fans need to stop worrying about trading Gaudreau today because they are scared he will walk as a free agent. Everything in this thread using that as a reason is based on speculation.

I do agree that we're really jumping the gun here in assuming he wants to go. And even if he does want to go at the end of this contract, you don't move him this season unless you're getting a King's Ransom. And same goes with this off season, and next season as well.

Perhaps next off-season it's okay to lower the price a bit if you're truly sure he isn't going to come back. But may still want to hold off until trade deadline to try to get GM's that desperately overpay.

[ForeverFlameFan]

You keep Johnny unless you're getting an upgrade on him... And there are very few players that you can consider an upgrade on Johnny in the NHL.