Johnny Gaudreau: Trade or Keep?

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Dube

Lol Johnny couldn’t hold a candle to Kane

Have to agree. Kane has played 127 playoff games and is just a hair under point per game. Also over ppg in his regular season career. I think we all wished Johnny would be our Patrick Kane but I don't see it happening. I just don't see the tenacity in tough games and wouldn't be surprised if last years totals are the apex. Would love to be proven wrong but even if he does improve going forward I believe it will be on a different team. If that's the case trade him before the start of next season for a nice return.

[Inglewood Jack]

Indeed, terribly disappointing that Chicago’s 1st overall pick is a better player than our 104th overall pick.

[bettercallbettman]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

Indeed, terribly disappointing that Chicago’s 1st overall pick is a better player than our 104th overall pick.

Very true.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

Indeed, terribly disappointing that Chicago’s 1st overall pick is a better player than our 104th overall pick.

Very clever. Does that matter going forward? So we should be saying oh well he's a 4th rounder can't equate him to a peer that he's been compared to and tracked since he started in the league. He's going to want to get paid like Kane next contract. Skill is comparable, arguably higher. Hindsight is 20/20 but he would be top 3 in a redraft. Just saying a lot of people think he could be that player with a few adjustments like strength, stamina and, allegedly, commitment. Maybe the biggest difference between the two is between the ears. I understand he's been found money but now that we have it the expectations are high.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by chedder

Very clever. Does that matter going forward? So we should be saying oh well he's a 4th rounder can't equate him to a peer that he's been compared to and tracked since he started in the league. He's going to want to get paid like Kane next contract. Skill is comparable, arguably higher. Hindsight is 20/20 but he would be top 3 in a redraft. Just saying a lot of people think he could be that player with a few adjustments like strength, stamina and, allegedly, commitment. Maybe the biggest difference between the two is between the ears. I understand he's been found money but now that we have it the expectations are high.

If he’s top 3 in a redraft, I’d say he’s still considered pretty good. I would also note that Patrick Kane dipped to 66 points in his fifth season, then rebounded nicely to PPG or higher thereafter.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Gaudreau is the first real elite-level player this team has had since Iginla departed. Yeah, he is small. Yeah, the odds are against him. However, we have seen him battle those odds and succeed. The first time he falters, suddenly he isn't good enough? Suddenly the questions started arising as to whether we could win with him or not? Were we always waiting for him to fail and jump all over him or something?



Gaudreau IS a guy you win with, and added to that, he is on a sweet ass contract. You keep him and you try to add to him.


I think people are way over thinking things at times. Want a Stanley Cup Championship? You accumulate as many impact players as possible. Stop thinking of it as 'building around a player or two' like we thought with Iginla. So Gaudreau has had some tough times in the playoffs when things tighten up - well, maybe other guys should step up more, especially on different lines. Maybe the coach should be able to counter certain things too?



Maybe some of you don't really remember all that far back to that '89 team. Maybe of you weren't alive then, or were too young to remember. For those of you that were, who was the guy you had to stop? Who was the focus of the other team's defensive strategies?


I will tell you. NOBODY. Not one single player.


Sure, they tried to key-in on MacInnis at the point. However, you had Roberts, Nieuwendyk, Loob, Mullen, Gilmour, MacInnis, Suter (and then Ramage in the playoffs), plus a host of really good role players who contributed up and down the lineup on forward and defence.


Gaudreau is NOT a 'problem', and he is certainly someone that you DO win with. He - just like Gretzky and Badger Bob's playbook - can't be the focus all the time. You need to add to him.



Ward needs to figure out how to get his lines rolling. How to develop chemistry in the top 3 lines and have them all chipping in on different nights regularly. There ABSOLUTELY has to be a bona fide #2 scoring line for the Flames that can also play a 200ft game. I love Backlund, and he does fine as a scorer (though this year he is snakebitten, but hardly unique this season after you look at other players and their production). For this team to win, I argue that someone needs to supplant him as the 2nd line scoring centre with high defensive abilities, and have him become the elite 3rd line centre.



For this team to win, guys like Bennett, Mangiapane, Dube, whomever else on the team or in the pipeline - some of these guys have to take a step forward and create more out there.


The problem is not just Gaudreau. Flames decades ago managed to limit the best player ever in the game during that '86 playoff series when Gretzky managed less than 2pts/game (which was really limiting him). Was it Gretzky's fault?


Gaudreau is an elite-level talent. He doesn't seem to be a distraction to the team, or bad in the room, or 'un-coachable', or anything else. A team needs as many elite-level talents as possible, and they need to fit them under a salary cap. Gaudreau is an elite-level talent, and his contract is a bargain that helps the Flames fit talent on the roster. He is NOT the problem. The Flames just need more guys to step up and/or add to that talent pool.


Sure, I would be ok with trading Gaudreau away in a trade that sees the Flames add talent, but I just don't see it, especially with Gaudreau's cap hit. You are either going to sacrifice the cap substantially by swapping elite level talents, or you are going to do a 'quality for quantity' trade with perhaps some of that quantity being a hope and a prayer that they willl develop into elite level talents. If something really good opens up, sure, I will be fine with that - whatever helps the team legitimately improve.


I just think it is absolute hogwash that 'you can't win with Gaudreau' or that 'he is a problem'. The problem is that this team needs to find a way to step up.

[GreenLantern2814]

^^^Yup. No team has ever been held back from a championship because they had a player as good as Johnny Gaudreau.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Gaudreau is the first real elite-level player this team has had since Iginla departed. .

Giordano winning an award as best in the world at his position suggests elite level.

I would also argue that Tkachuk is an elite level player as well, though some of his abilities are not obvious in "counting stats", and as such he is under appreciated how complete a game he possesses.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Giordano winning an award as best in the world at his position suggests elite level.

I would also argue that Tkachuk is an elite level player as well, though some of his abilities are not obvious in "counting stats", and as such he is under appreciated how complete a game he possesses.

I agree with those two completely, and I would also add in that Brodie is a top 5 defencemen at transitioning, and that together with Giordano, form a bona fide elite pairing in the league.


Point is, that Gaudreau was the FIRST real elite level talent since Iginla left (and only Fleury before Iginla + Kipper), and people are so quick to want to trade him and throw him under the bus, or proclaim that you can't win with Gaudreau.

[dissentowner]

Here is the thing, there is two teams tied to Gaudreau because of their location being NJ and more so Philly. I have really thought about it and there is nothing but magic beans available from the Flyers, they are nice beans but beans none the less. If we were rebuilding it would be great, but we are not. There are exactly two players on NJ I would trade Johnny for and I don't see NJ parting with either. Jack Hughes or Nico Hischier. I just don't see a deal there and NJ is still building. Taylor Hall is a non starter, we would regret that for years! Then I thought of the Ottawa Senators, a team far from contending who would love a bunch of prospects/picks. I wonder if they got enough from the Flyers if they would part with Brady. So I was thinking three way deal.

To Flyers: Johnny Gaudreau
To Flames: Brady Tkachuk
To Sens: A cap dump (Ghost has been struggling but still has upside), Frost, Lindblom, and whatever else if anything needs to be added.

Anything barring that kind of return and I would rather keep Johnny.

[Resolute 14]

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Here is the thing, there is two teams tied to Gaudreau because of their location being NJ and more so Philly. I have really thought about it and there is nothing but magic beans available from the Flyers, they are nice beans but beans none the less. If we were rebuilding it would be great, but we are not. There are exactly two players on NJ I would trade Johnny for and I don't see NJ parting with either. Jack Hughes or Nico Hischier. I just don't see a deal there and NJ is still building. Taylor Hall is a non starter, we would regret that for years! Then I thought of the Ottawa Senators, a team far from contending who would love a bunch of prospects/picks. I wonder if they got enough from the Flyers if they would part with Brady. So I was thinking three way deal.

To Flyers: Johnny Gaudreau
To Flames: Brady Tkachuk
To Sens: A cap dump (Ghost has been struggling but still has upside), Frost, Lindblom, and whatever else if anything needs to be added.

Anything barring that kind of return and I would rather keep Johnny.

Why is Ottawa trading Tkachuk for prospects?

[Saturn]

[MOD EDIT] Nope. Not here.

[BurningSteel]

Originally Posted by Saturn

[MOD EDIT] Nope. Not here.

Oh? Source?

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Saturn

[MOD EDIT] Nope. Not here.

You'd better be able to back this claim to the moderators of the forum. Posting this because you heard a rumour from a guy at Orange Julius isn't going to count.

Quite frankly, I'm sick of these posts.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by Saturn

[MOD EDIT] Nope. Not here.

Ban hammer

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Here is the thing, there is two teams tied to Gaudreau because of their location being NJ and more so Philly...

Why does this even matter? If the Flames want to move Gaudreau they can trade him to wherever they want. Gaudreau's NTC does not kick in until 2021.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

You'd better be able to back this claim to the moderators of the forum. Posting this because you heard a rumour from a guy at Orange Julius isn't going to count.

Quite frankly, I'm sick of these posts.

There is a fair amount of smoke though for this this to be coming out of nowhere.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Joborule

There is a fair amount of smoke though for this this to be coming out of nowhere.

That doesn't matter. Unless this sort of gossip becomes public knowledge, it is still not something we want propagated here at CP.

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Here is the thing, there is two teams tied to Gaudreau because of their location being NJ and more so Philly. I have really thought about it and there is nothing but magic beans available from the Flyers, they are nice beans but beans none the less. If we were rebuilding it would be great, but we are not. There are exactly two players on NJ I would trade Johnny for and I don't see NJ parting with either. Jack Hughes or Nico Hischier. I just don't see a deal there and NJ is still building. Taylor Hall is a non starter, we would regret that for years! Then I thought of the Ottawa Senators, a team far from contending who would love a bunch of prospects/picks. I wonder if they got enough from the Flyers if they would part with Brady. So I was thinking three way deal.

To Flyers: Johnny Gaudreau
To Flames: Brady Tkachuk
To Sens: A cap dump (Ghost has been struggling but still has upside), Frost, Lindblom, and whatever else if anything needs to be added.

Anything barring that kind of return and I would rather keep Johnny.

You lost me at the sens trading Brady.....then you lost me again when you proposed the cheapest team in the league taking a cap dump. Give your head a shake.