[confirmed] Flames will go after Derek Ryan in FA

[PsYcNeT]

Ryan is better in every metric than Stajan (especially defensive play), even going back to 2011-2012 (not Ryan, he wasn't in the league at the time, more speaking to Stajan's peak era)

I'm more concerned about term/cost than I am about effectiveness. You want strong possession guys in your bottom 6, even if they're not offensive drivers. If they were, they probably wouldn't be bottom 6.

Anything below 3.5/2 or 3/4 would be pretty optimal with the current cap level.

[Ashasx]

I agree 100% with your first 2 paragraphs and haven't indicated otherwise anywhere else.

But the Flames shouldn't even be considering a contract longer than 2 years for a player of this caliber. Save those contracts for top 6 guys and let somebody else make the mistake that will bite them in the ass 2 years from now.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

If we sign Ryan to be the number 3 centre it makes me wonder if Janko is going to be shopped for help on the wing?

... or, you know, they don't make it complicated and just have Ryan play 3rd line RW (and take situational faceoffs).

C'mon guys, don't overthink it.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I agree 100% with your first 2 paragraphs and haven't indicated otherwise anywhere else.

But the Flames shouldn't even be considering a contract longer than 2 years for a player of this caliber. Save those contracts for top 6 guys and let somebody else make the mistake that will bite them in the ass 2 years from now.

Something that I believe is appealing about Ryan is that he's a guy, thanks to his strong 200 foot game, that can play up and down the line-up.

Have him centre the 4th line to help stabilize that line so it can actually be used effectively while rolling 4 lines during 5v5 play. If an injury pops up, Ryan can slide up the line-up on wing or centre to help fill in there, and call up a player from Stockton to fill in Ryan's spot on the 4th line.

That's something that we absolutely lacked last year IMO. No one on the 4th line could player anywhere but the 4th line, and they couldn't even do that effectively.

[Nelson]

Like almost everyone else, I think this is a decent option (not my favourite one, but my opinion is that it’s a decent one). However, the contract needs to take into account the risks here.
-Ryan has played heavily with Jeff Skinner. To what extent is Jeff Skinner responsible for his success?
-Ryan has averaged close to 60% of the time in the offensive zone during his career. To what extent is getting the high ground a lot helping him control shot attempts?
-Ryan has played against slightly below average opposition in his career. To what extent is this responsible for his ability to control shot attempts?
-Ryan had great numbers last year and only so-so numbers 2 years ago. Why the change? Was it just that he got used to the league?
-Ryan is 31 years old and only broke into the league for a small part of 15-16. Is his body breaking down like a normal 31 year old NHLers or does he have less wear and tear because he played at the UofA, overseas etc.

Bottom line: I don’t think this is a player you must have and shovel money at to get. I’d like it if the Flames said 2 years, 2 and a half million (Matt Cane’s algorithm). However, if they have to give more, I’d rather they give more money than term because I feel suspicious of last year’s amazing results. Don’t give the guy a contract he absolutely cannot live up to!

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Parallex

... or, you know, they don't make it complicated and just have Ryan play 3rd line RW (and take situational faceoffs).

C'mon guys, don't overthink it.

Not overthinking anything. Trying to figure out how we get another top 6 forward that they desperately need.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Not overthinking anything. Trying to figure out how we get another top 6 forward that they desperately need.

The simple answer is they aren't getting one on July 1, nor in my opinion should they.

The top 6 forward they are looking for is Sam Bennett. Whether they get him is debatable.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

The simple answer is they aren't getting one on July 1, nor in my opinion should they.

The top 6 forward they are looking for is Sam Bennett. Whether they get him is debatable.

I find that hard to believe. The Flames are replacing Hamilton, Ferland, Stajan, and maybe Hathaway with Hanifin, Lindholm, Ryan*, Reaves* (*potentially) I don’t see how thst team is going to improve on their bottom 5 finish if goals for last year.

Didn’t they bank on Bennett last year taking the step as well?

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I find that hard to believe. The Flames are replacing Hamilton, Ferland, Stajan, and maybe Hathaway with Hanifin, Lindholm, Ryan*, Reaves* (*potentially) I don’t see how thst team is going to improve on their bottom 5 finish if goals for last year.

Didn’t they bank on Bennett last year taking the step as well?

Yup, they did bank on Bennett taking that step.

Who's your guy then, to fill that role, that the Flames will get July 1 and who won't cripple them going forward?
I just don't see anyone. So I expect they try to build a competitive bottom 6 and hope for Bennett one more time..

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Yup, they did bank on Bennett taking that step.

Who's your guy then, to fill that role, that the Flames will get July 1 and who won't cripple them going forward?
I just don't see anyone. So I expect they try to build a competitive bottom 6 and hope for Bennett one more time..

I don’t see anyone on July 1 either which is why I am speculating trade with possibly Jankowski and/or Bennett as the chips. They are young, cheap. And have upside. I look at the Wild as a team up against the cap with Nino, Coyle, Zucker as options.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I don’t see anyone on July 1 either which is why I am speculating trade with possibly Jankowski and/or Bennett as the chips. They are young, cheap. And have upside. I look at the Wild as a team up against the cap with Nino, Coyle, Zucker as options.

Fair enough. I don't see that either though - at least not with Bennett, as that would probably amount to selling low.
But yeah, I think if help is coming in top 6 it comes by trade as well, not by UFA. At least not without getting lucky. Every team is hunting for that William Karlsson now.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I find that hard to believe. The Flames are replacing Hamilton, Ferland, Stajan, and maybe Hathaway with Hanifin, Lindholm, Ryan*, Reaves* (*potentially) I don’t see how thst team is going to improve on their bottom 5 finish if goals for last year.

Didn’t they bank on Bennett last year taking the step as well?

They didn't set Bennett, or the bottom 6, for success though, and I think we're already much better off in this regard. A big key for Treliving at the season ticket holder sessions was "we have to find a way to get more from who we do have as well as adding from the outside" (paraphrasing).

Last year the bottom 6 was such a hot mess that the few bright spots we did have (Bennett, Jankowski, Lazar for the final stretch of the season) were dragged down by the rubbish surrounding them.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Tkachuk
Jankowski - Backlund - Frolik
Bennett - Lindholm - ?????
Brouwer - Ryan - Reaves
Lazar

Then add in Foo and Mangiapane pushing for roster spots, and I like the make-up of these lines a lot more.

5v5 Breakdown:

- Tkachuk replacing Ferland on the top line will increase production, and make the line better defensively.

- Lindholm + ?????? should help Bennett improve, as they'll be the best linemates Bennett has had since his rookie year. Lindholm as the centre on this line is a huge step up from a rookie filling that role last year.

- Jankowski may not score 17 with Backlund and Frolik, but they'll be great defensively and we'll hopefully see a bit of a bounce back from Frolik offensively.

- Ryan should help carry the 4th line to a level of effectiveness we haven't seen before. His wingers will be key. I have Brouwer listed there, but I believe Brouwer will lose his job to Foo/Mangiapane. Eatbread + Ryan could be a great duo.

[Vinny01]

^^ not a fan of those lines personally

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Then we at least will have a bottom-6 centre that has Backlund-level shot suppression metrics.

Is that REALLY the case though?



According to Canes' fans, he was very sheltered and benefited from a tonne of offensive zone draws. He was apparently horrible on the PK and wasn't utilized there.



There seems to be a disconnect somewhere, and I am hoping someone throws up a lot more information on Ryan.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

^^ not a fan of those lines personally

Where do you see the problem? Anything you'd do differently?

[Toonage]

So let's say the Flames FA haul is

Derek Ryan
Ryan Reaves
Tobias Rieder

Hows this look?

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik
Bennett-Jankowski-Rieder
Mangiapane-Ryan-Reaves
- Brouwer
- Lazar

Giordano-Brodie
Hanifin-Hamonic
Kulak-Andersson
- Stone (unless he's moved)

Smith-Rittich

Given that its Peters those lines will be mixed routinely but how does that look for a start?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Nelson

-Ryan had great numbers last year and only so-so numbers 2 years ago. Why the change? Was it just that he got used to the league?...

I don’t see much of a change in Ryan’s production from 2016-17–2017-18. He played a fair fewer NHL games his first year, but has posted virtually the same pts/gp in both seasons.

Someone also mentioned above how adding quality centres who can play up and down the lineup is a good plan to offset injuries, and that makes me wonder how Monahan’s injury struggles last season have played into Treliving’s thinking about player acquisitions this year. Ryan and Lindholm are certainly players who can help cover holes elsewhere when injuries do inevitably occur.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Toonage

So let's say the Flames FA haul is

Derek Ryan
Ryan Reaves
Tobias Rieder

Hows this look?

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik
Bennett-Jankowski-Rieder
Mangiapane-Ryan-Reaves
- Brouwer
- Lazar

Giordano-Brodie
Hanifin-Hamonic
Kulak-Andersson'
- Stone (unless he's moved)

Smith-Rittich

Given that its Peters those lines will be mixed routinely but how does that look for a start?

I'd still push for better balance.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Tkachuk
Jankowski - Backlund - Frolik
Bennett - Lindholm - Rieder
Mangiapane - Ryan - Reaves
Brouwer, Lazar

Giordano - Brodie
Hanifin - Hamonic
Kulak - Andersson
UFA Free Agent (Luke Schenn? Cody Franson?)

(Stone traded for picks)

Smith
Gillies

(I think Gillies will beat out Rittich)

[EldrickOnIce]

^ don't see how one can suggest Bennett was a bright spot last year.
Disappointing at center to start the year.
Further drop in overall production.
Produced nothing when playing in top line to end the season.

Ill buy into reasons for optimism going into this season, but last year was a train wreck for Bennett.

In my opinion

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

^^ not a fan of those lines personally

Nope. Those are gross.