2014 Training Camp Cuts. UPD: Oct 5 - Baertschi, Jooris and Ortio cut

[Bingo]

I certainly understand the thirst for youth in the lineup, and if the Flames were a team expecting to finish 6th this season I'd be clamouring for Setoguchi, Jones and others to be moved to the sidelines.

Bottom line ... the team isn't in that position.

I see it as 24 months, and what's best for every single asset in the organization to be the best player they can be at that time. Is Gaudreau better off playing NHL hockey? Then play him there. Is Bennett? Ortio? Wotherspoon? Granlund? Those are the questions.

Plus ... I don't think its lost on Treliving or Burke that they may be better off having young guys winning at the AHL level and reclamation projects like Setoguchi sputtered at the NHL level while trying hard, and keeping the team in 30th place.

There's tanking, and there's strategic management. Big difference

[saillias]

I just don't buy this narrative that we have to baby our best players in the AHL and intentionally put bad players in the NHL to weather what some of you are already writing off as a lottery season.

[BigFlameDog]

I am a big Ferland fan but I wouldn't cry if he went down to play 14-16 mins a might in the A.

He's going to be a player IMO and the ice time will do him well.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by BChockeyJunkie

I know I'm somewhat bias, but I've been watching and following as much as some of you. I just dont know what else Gaudreau has to do to be in the starting lineup. What is the weak phase of his game, yes, he's not gonna throw his body around, but his defensive game is well underrated. Always making smart plays, great at back checking plus a great defensive is a quick counter attack.

He controls the game when he's on the ice, knows when to turn it up ice and when to keep control and play the puck back. It blows my mind that there are still fans out there that are willing to keep someone that will be out of the flames organization within a year or two, over a kid that could be a cornerstone for years to come.

If you polled the CP population I think you would find most people would like to see Gaudreau stick with the big club.

He still has a great opportunity to take the decision into his own hands. If he can score some more highlight reel goals he'll be there on opening night. Having watched him turn scores of skeptics into believers I honestly believe he has as good a shot as anyone to snag a roster spot (and hopefully the #13 jersey).

However, there are a few arguments in favour of demoting Johnny which make sense. I fully expect Johnny to dominate NHL teams some day soon, and though he is playing well he isn't the dominant force he could be. There's an argument that his development would be better served by easing his way into professional hockey in the AHL. The Flames are nowhere near contending yet, so why rush a young player into the NHL when it's not completely necessary to ice your most talented players? The Flames also have other excellent prospects that have 'paid their dues' by working hard in the minors to promote themselves within the organisation. A bit older, a bit bigger and a bit more 'seasoned' by experience, it might make more sense to reward one of these players with an NHL position while it's still plausible to demote a 1st year rookie like Johnny. It's also a great opportunity for him to develop chemistry with his future Calgary linemates who will also be eager to earn one of the first injury call-ups.

Regardless of what happens in the next week I guarantee Johnny Gaudreau will force his way onto the Calgary Flames by the end of the season.

[cannon7]

I think that Ferland and Gaudreau are effectively locks for opening day. Ferland fills a dire need on this team, a big body who plays hard and keeps opponents honest with above-average offensive instincts. They tried to address that with the Bolig acquisition, but I think Ferland is an upgrade over him. Gaudreau has had multiple highlight reel goals just in the tournament and camp alone, he's not going anywhere. Plus with guys like Ferland around him, he'll be that much more dangerous.

As for Baertschi, I think the organization is expecting more from him. I'm not saying he's had a bad camp, I just know that he has another gear and don't know why he's holding back. Perhaps its still a confidence issue, I don't know.

I think Bennett gets nine games if there is a spot for him due to injuries. If not, then I think he gets sent down as the Flames already have their fair share of rookies entering the lineup.

When Granlund is healthy he will be immediately sent down for conditioning purposes. It will depend on the injury situation as to when he'll be called back up. Or if guys like Baertschi or Gaudreau strugle.

Beyond that I think the rest will be cut.

On D I would not be surprised to see Diaz get a contract. No big changes beyond that IMO.E

[hummdeedoo]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

Regardless of what happens in the next week I guarantee Johnny Gaudreau will force his way onto the Calgary Flames by the end of the season.

I hope this happens this year for all these great prospects - I'm willing to be patient and let it happen over the course of this season. It's not so much who's in the line up to start the year but who's here at the end of the year.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by saillias

I just don't buy this narrative that we have to baby our best players in the AHL and intentionally put bad players in the NHL to weather what some of you are already writing off as a lottery season.

I'd just rather watch Gaudreau and Bennett than Janes and Setoguchi.

Because they're better players. Period.

Don't really care what place we end up in. Just don't want to watch plugs anymore. Been doing that for about 6 or 7 years.

[Freeway]

The people around the organization are entirely aware of their situation. They're not gonna be going for broke this season. It's a rebuild.

[RyZ]

If Bennett and possibly the lottery draft pick we get after this season are slated to make the team next year, when are some of these young guys going to get in? It's a case where we have to start 3 or 4 rookies this season or next. Why not now?

We can't let Johnny, Sven, Ferland and Granlund sit in the AHL until they are 24-25 yrs old. I guess we can, but that would be stupid, kill all player confidence and probably have some of the guys hoping for a trade to get a chance elsewhere.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Goriders

I'd just rather watch Gaudreau and Bennett than Janes and Setoguchi.

Because they're better players. Period.

Don't really care what place we end up in. Just don't want to watch plugs anymore. Been doing that for about 6 or 7 years.

But really it should be about what is best fit the player and team, not about what you want to see

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

But really it should be about what is best fit the player and team, not about what you want to see

You are of course right, but so is he. I am also sick of watching plugs for the past 6-7 years.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Parallex

You don't shove kids into the line-up just for the sake of having kids in the line-up. Jeez, the vast majority of MLB draft picks selected out of high school spend at least 3 years in the lower levels and those selected out of the NCAA spend at least one.

Have patience people.

A) this isn't baseball

B) at least 2 or 3 of our prospects are visibly NHL ready, so it's not putting kids in for the sake of putting kids in.

What a #####. Also, Sven and and Johnny for example have both spent 3 years in "lower levels" as you like to put it. Are you a year or two behind the times or something?

[codynw]

There will be plenty of chances to see rookies throughout the year. It's not like David Jones is going to play more than 30 games anyways.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Bingo

There's tanking, and there's strategic management. Big difference

Agree with everything you said until this. That's just lexicon. From a management perspective, the goal is the same and the methods are the same, only the lingo changes.

If it helps us fans sleep better to avoid the moniker, great. If you're being intellectually honest (love that term) it's the same.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by RyZ

We can't let Johnny, Sven, Ferland and Granlund sit in the AHL until they are 24-25 yrs old. I guess we can, but that would be stupid, kill all player confidence and probably have some of the guys hoping for a trade to get a chance elsewhere.

Didn't seem to ruin Gustav Nyquist.

Look, both Burke and Treliving had repeatedly expressed their philosophy about player development. They don't believe it's possible to over-season prospects in the minors.

It's frustrating right now, but that's what you get when you wait three seasons too long to start a rebuild - a long and painful rebuild. The Flames were an impatient franchise for many years, and the new management group (and the fans) are going to have to be very patient to put things on a solid footing long-term.

[SuperMatt18]

The other thing to consider is that even though guys like Baertschi, Gaudreau, Granlund, and Ferland look NHL ready they could always use more time in the AHL.

Look at some standout rookies from last year:

Palat: 117 AHL Games (2 seasons)
T. Johnson: 137 AHL Games (2 seasons)
Chiasson: 67 AHL Games (1 season)
Toffoli: 76 AHL Games (1 Seasons)
Pearson: 105 AHL Games (2 Seasons)
Jurco: 106 AHL Games (2 Seasons)
Nyquist: 137 AHL Games (3 Seasons)

Compare that to our young guys:

Gaudreau: 0 AHL Games
Ferland: 32 AHL Games
Granlund: 52 AHL Games
Baertschi: 73 AHL Games
Reinhart: 134 AHL Games

Really you could argue the most successful guys (Palat, Johnson, Nyquist) all spend lots of time in the AHL. Personally I don't think more time AHL will hurt them (Tampa Bay seems to be taking the Detroit method of things and it is working well), but selfishly would like them in the NHL since it will provide more entertainment.

The other thing is that starting in the AHL doesn't mean they will be there all year. Toffoli, Pearson, Jurco, Nyquist, etc all started the season in the AHL but forced their way up to the big club in short order. If they are NHL ready it won't take long for them to show it and make their way up.

Really the guys that should be getting the chance this year are Baertschi and Reinhart, with Ferland, Johnny, and Granlund all using another AHL season (to start) to get ready.

[BChockeyJunkie]

If gaudreau didn't play the last game of the season (In which he was EASILY top 3 on the ice for both teams)

and

If gaudreau didn't play in the Worlds and absolutely prove that he can play with pros (I know you've seen it, but watch the Germany Highlights, there are annual pros that havn't done what he did in one game)

and

If gaudreau didn't prove he was one of the best on the ice in both rookie camp/tournament and training camp

At that point! if you argued to put him in the NHL, I'd call ya stupid for wanted to rush some college award winner in the lineup just cause.... but im sorry none of those IFS are close to being true.....

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Also, Sven and and Johnny for example have both spent 3 years in "lower levels" as you like to put it.

A lower professional level... I'm not talking about amateur play here.

[djsFlames]

Johnny doesn't need AHL time. It wouldn't hurt, but it's not required in his case. What's the point?

It doesn't apply to every single player. Johnny won't be playing a physical role, and won't bulk up much more than he already has (maybe 10lbs max). He can be sheltered on the NHL club. His minutes can be managed if need be. His risk of being being injured is equally likely at either level. His skills put him at possibly the most talented kid in the organization, let alone the roster. He has outperformed most of the vets. He can help the team now.

The AHL is a necessary stepping stone for many players, yes. But not all players. There are exceptions where the player is good enough that they can be an exception to the 'rule'. Gaudreau has proven to be one of the exceptions.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

with Ferland, Johnny, and Granlund all using another AHL season to get ready.

I'd probably put Granlund in the other group since he has the experience in the SM-liiga, which shouldn't count as much as AHL experience but a bit more then amateur experience.