Bob Mckenzie: Flames could have had Nyquist and Tatar for Bouwmeester

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Here's a different angle. Feaster didn't make use of his cap space by not signing Nyquist to an offer sheet over the summer. He could have offer sheeted nyquist at $3m per season and acquired a quality prospect for a 2nd round pick. Yeah, he would have pissed off Holland but we would have been better off with Nyquist in our starting lineup than not. Given Detroits cap situation, they would have had no other option but to let nyquist go or sell some of their other assets for cents on the dollar. Feaster could have done the same with the Kings and Clifford as they were pushed up against the cap.

Feasters inability to use cap space in this manner is as much of an indictment as turning down Detroits purported offer for Bouw. Couldn't close the deal(s) when it counted.

This is a fair point and hopefully Burke starts throwing around some offer sheets to some players this summer. Getting a decent RFA this summer would be nice given all our cap space. Maybe give Brett Connolly a 3 year 7.8 million dollar deal and give Yzerman a 2nd round pick.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Here's a different angle. Feaster didn't make use of his cap space by not signing Nyquist to an offer sheet over the summer. He could have offer sheeted nyquist at $3m per season and acquired a quality prospect for a 2nd round pick. Yeah, he would have pissed off Holland but we would have been better off with Nyquist in our starting lineup than not. Given Detroits cap situation, they would have had no other option but to let nyquist go or sell some of their other assets for cents on the dollar. Feaster could have done the same with the Kings and Clifford as they were pushed up against the cap.

Feasters inability to use cap space in this manner is as much of an indictment as turning down Detroits purported offer for Bouw. Couldn't close the deal(s) when it counted.

Prior to this season Nyquist had 13 points in 40 NHL games. I don't think he was on very many teams' radars before he tore it up the last half of this season. Feaster would have been crucified for signing him to a $3 million offer sheet.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

Which package would you have preferred for Bouwmeester?:

A)
1st round pick (22nd)--> Emile Poirier
Reto Berra --> 2014 2nd round pick
Mark Cundari

or

B)
Gustav Nyquist
Tomas Tatar
2nd round pick

The 2nd round pick Burke got for Berra has nothing to do with Feaster. There is about a 2% chance Feaster would have waited out Colorado to get that high of a pick.

Flames got lucky that a team had an irrational crush on Berra. The return we got for Berra is so out of line what goalies even a step or two above him got in terms of a return in a trade.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

Prior to this season Nyquist had 13 points in 40 NHL games. I don't think he was on very many teams' radars before he tore it up the last half of this season. Feaster would have been crucified for signing him to a $3 million offer sheet.

The Wings were right up to the cap... you could have gone to $1.5 million and likely got him for a 3rd.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

This is a fair point and hopefully Burke starts throwing around some offer sheets to some players this summer. Getting a decent RFA this summer would be nice given all our cap space. Maybe give Brett Connolly a 3 year
7.8 million dollar deal and give Yzerman a 2nd round pick.

No way does Burke offer Connolly that deal.

For one thing, Connolly has done nothing to earn it,

for another, Burke is the guy that offered to beat up Lowe in a barn because Lowe gave what he thought was too high a contract offer to an RFA, throwing the salary scale out of whack.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

The 2nd round pick Burke got for Berra has nothing to do with Feaster. There is about a 2% chance Feaster would have waited out Colorado to get that high of a pick.

Flames got lucky that a team had an irrational crush on Berra. The return we got for Berra is so out of line what goalies even a step or two above him got in terms of a return in a trade.

Regardless of any of this can you honestly say that the Flames are currently in that much worse of a position than if Feaster had taken the Detroit offer for Bouw?

We wouldn't have gotten Emile Poirier, who is an excellent prospect (and a bigger body). The 2nd rounder for Berra should be a decent prospect, but we'll have to wait and see. Cundari? Meh.

Nyquist has had an awesome season, but he's not the sort of player we are desperately lacking going forward. Sub-6' left-handed wingers are sort of our bag, baby. Who is to say he would have had the same opportunity in Calgary to put up points as he did in Detroit? This season he would have come into camp with Hudler, Cammalleri, Glencross, Stempniak, Jones and probably Baertschi ahead of him on the depth chart for places in the top 6.

Coulda-shoulda-woulda all you want, but when all is said and done this decision hasn't turned out to be that big of a deal. I think it's actually worked out quite well for the fact that we landed Emile Poirier alone.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Ped

No way does Burke offer Connolly that deal.

For one thing, Connolly has done nothing to earn it,

for another, Burke is the guy that offered to beat up Lowe in a barn because Lowe gave what he thought was too high a contract offer to an RFA, throwing the salary scale out of whack.

Connolly is a young scoring RW who can be had for a 2nd round pick. If Burke lets his misguided morals get in the way of building a better team I will be very disappointed. Connolly addresses an organizational need and a 3 year deal is perfectly fine for a team that will not be in cap trouble in the next 3 years.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

The Wings were right up to the cap... you could have gone to $1.5 million and likely got him for a 3rd.

Still, at that point Nyquist hadn't shown anything in the NHL to prove he was worth that sort of contract. I reiterate: 13 points in 40 games over a couple of seasons prior to 13/14. Are 23 year old AHL tweeners worth million-dollar contracts?

If we had good enough pro scouts to foresee that Nyquist was about to break out and score 28 goals then we'd be in a much better situation than the rebuild we're currently in.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Connolly is a young scoring RW who can be had for a 2nd round pick. If Burke lets his misguided morals get in the way of building a better team I will be very disappointed. Connolly addresses an organizational need and a 3 year deal is perfectly fine for a team that will not be in cap trouble in the next 3 years.

Not sure how not handing a player with 17 points in 84 games an unwarranted contract is misguided morals.
Are you also going to give that money to Bouma, Galiardi, Byron, Colborne, and Baertschi?

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Connolly is a young scoring RW who can be had for a 2nd round pick. If Burke lets his misguided morals get in the way of building a better team I will be very disappointed. Connolly addresses an organizational need and a 3 year deal is perfectly fine for a team that will not be in cap trouble in the next 3 years.

If he wants to trade a 2nd round pick for his rights then fine but to spend nearly 8 million on a player who's done zilch in the NHL is dumb.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Connolly is a young scoring RW who can be had for a 2nd round pick. If Burke lets his misguided morals get in the way of building a better team I will be very disappointed. Connolly addresses an organizational need and a 3 year deal is perfectly fine for a team that will not be in cap trouble in the next 3 years.

Brett Connolly is waiver-eligible for the first time next season. If he's not going to make TB's lineup this season then I would say he could be had for a lot less than a 2nd round pick. It's the same situation Joe Colborne was in at the start of last season with the Leafs.

I'd be up for slinging a 4th round pick to Tampa for him, but there are some serious question marks surrounding him. He hasn't turned into the player he was expected to be, and he's had a lot of opportunities. I sure as hell wouldn't sign him to an offer sheet at this stage.

... but you never know; he could be the next Nyquist. I'm sure Burke owns a better crystal ball than any of us do.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I'll write this again, he got some of those prospects through failure. While I like Poirier and Klimchuk that's like saying Shero trades Crosby for the 22nd and 28th pick and he gets hailed for restocking the cupboards.

Also putting in Ramo and Hudler is a stretch. What about Wideman, Galiardi, Cervenka ect.?

I understand very little of this post. How is it like Shero trading Crosby for 22 and 28 unless you are just using hyperbole to somehow make a point that escapes me.

And why is putting Hudler and Ramo in there a stretch? He acquired them and they have been good acquisitions. I suspect if they weren't good acquisitions you sure as heck would be putting them in the negative move column and blaming Feaster for it.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by moon

Sure but it doesn't make the original trade good or bad.

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

This exactly! this is all about unconfirmed rumours and hindsight. Maybe we should go back even further and talk about how someone heard that Giroux could have been had for Dion Phaneuf?

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

Still, at that point Nyquist hadn't shown anything in the NHL to prove he was worth that sort of contract. I reiterate: 13 points in 40 games over a couple of seasons prior to 13/14. Are 23 year old AHL tweeners worth million-dollar contracts?

If we had good enough pro scouts to foresee that Nyquist was about to break out and score 28 goals then we'd be in a much better situation than the rebuild we're currently in.

1.5M and Detroit would have matched, considering they signed him for just short of a million.

Point here is we had the cap space and it's not like nyquist came out of nowhere. He's been one of the top prospects for Detroit for a couple of years and performed well at the ahl level and in a limited role in Detroit.

Overpaying to the point where Detroit is unable to match was the only way to pry him out of their organization. Yes he's not a 3m player but if you want to add good young players to the stable you overpay in terms of assets (players and picks) or through money. Given that we had loads of cap space, throwing a one or two year deal at nyquist wouldn't have been the worst idea in the world, especially given how prone Detroit was. Feaster didn't have it in him to bend holland over and take away one of his top prospects.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

Which package would you have preferred for Bouwmeester?:

A)
1st round pick (22nd)--> Emile Poirier
Reto Berra --> 2014 2nd round pick
Mark Cundari

or

B)
Gustav Nyquist
Tomas Tatar
2nd round pick

I'm not sure how many times it has to be stated before people get it right:

Mackenzie DID NOT suggest Nyquist, Tatar and a 2nd. It was Nyquist and Tater.

Also, there is some doubt as to whether that alleged offer was even for Bouwmeester (might have been Iginla).

The rumour at the time was Nyquist and a 2nd.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

Still, at that point Nyquist hadn't shown anything in the NHL to prove he was worth that sort of contract. I reiterate: 13 points in 40 games over a couple of seasons prior to 13/14. Are 23 year old AHL tweeners worth million-dollar contracts?

If we had good enough pro scouts to foresee that Nyquist was about to break out and score 28 goals then we'd be in a much better situation than the rebuild we're currently in.

Nyquist had two seasons in the AHL at over a point per game and was known as one of their top prospects.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I'm not sure how many times it has to be stated before people get it right:

Mackenzie DID NOT suggest Nyquist, Tatar and a 2nd. It was Nyquist and Tater.

Also, there is some doubt as to whether that alleged offer was even for Bouwmeester (might have been Iginla).

The rumour at the time was Nyquist and a 2nd.

People don't get it because all they want to do is piss on Feasters grave and kiss Burkes ass.

[dino7c]

Who knows if the rumor is true...if it is then Feaster obviously dropped the ball but we will never know.

one thing is for sure though when Feaster made the Jaybo deal he in his own words when defending the trade said that the cap space was an asset and a big part of the deal. Cap Space was never used in any way

[direwolf]

Can't believe this thread is at 19 pages. All these people with their panties in a bunch over a rumor regarding a trade that happened a year ago, that may or not even be true. Ridiculous. Let's move on, shall we. I think we can all agree that the Flames are handling this rebuild the right way and our future is looking bright. Onwards and upwards.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by dino7c

one thing is for sure though when Feaster made the Jaybo deal he in his own words when defending the trade said that the cap space was an asset and a big part of the deal. Cap Space was never used in any way

For all we know the Detroit offer could have been for 50% cap retention on Jaybo. In that scenario Nyquist (pre-breakout) & 2nd round pick isn't that great of a return.

We don't know what the offer was and it's history anyway.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jacks

For all we know the Detroit offer could have been for 50% cap retention on Jaybo. In that scenario Nyquist (pre-breakout) & 2nd round pick isn't that great of a return.

We don't know what the offer is and it's history anyway.

And the talk at the time was that Detroit was asking for some cap retention.