Bob Mckenzie: Flames could have had Nyquist and Tatar for Bouwmeester

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I gotta laugh at folks who think the timing of the rebuild and the decision to trade Iginla were in Feaster's hands. King and Edwards weren't ready to pull the plug on the Iginla era until halfway through last season. They weren't about to employ a GM who told them what they didn't want to hear.

That's the reason a new layer was added to the Flames management structure - to keep the guy in King's role from meddling in hockey operations anymore.

Yep. When Iginla/Agent informed the flames they weren't interested in talking about an extension until the season was over, the horror of losing Iginla for nothing invaded the consciousness of Flames management and ownership. That's what precipitated the whole thing.

Signing Wideman/Hudler, trading for Cammalleri again, even attempting to offersheet O'Reilly, these aren't moves made with the idea that you are going to implement a structured plan for success in the future; making the effort to trade veterans in exchange for potentially talented players in the future. I don't think that was really even established until Burke presented his report to ownership this season.

[OzSome]

What's the big deal? There is nothing Flames can do now if the rumour was really true. As I recall a lot of CP people doesn't think Feaster can get anything for Bouwmeester because he's washed-up according to many people here. When it's time to trade Bouwmeester maybe his target was getting 1st round pick + one or two prospects all along. Who knew how Nyqvist or Tatar will do this season? Do we think those guys plays full-time in Calgary this past season? Detroit and Calgary have different systems same as Calgary and St. Louis. In Calgary, Bouwmeester was playing lots of minutes but according to a lot of people he was a crappy defenseman. He moved to St. Louis and playing pretty much the same minutes but he is one of their best defenseman.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by T@T

Don't be dense

Outside of a couple of no brainer picks (top 7 picks) Burke has done nothing for 10 years at the draft, christ, he even fought with the scouts to not take Ryan at #2 to take Pouliot or Johnson.

And lets not forget the debacle of giving away a top 5 center and and a really nice looking defenseman for a one dimensional goal scorer who crumbles like a creampuff when the tough gets going.

Feasters 2011 draft with only 5 picks will probably turn out better than the last decade of Burkes brutal picks (other than the no brainers of course)

Keep drinking the phoney blowhards kool-aid though...eventually you'll get it.

phoney blowhards kool-aid? seriously get a grip pal

its not like I don't want Feasters picks to turn out but he gets an awful lot of credit for drafting players who have yet to prove anything at the NHL level.

[oldschoolcalgary]

lol

wait, wait, there are still people that defend Feaster?!

here's a guy that couldn't get a job for a year+, even though he 'built' a Stanley Cup winner, ran it into the ground, like Scorched Earth, two years after winning the Cup, gets credit for drafting Stamkos, a guy everyone knew was a stone cold lock for number 1 a year in advance...

And that's all before throwing in what he did in Calgary.

People realize he was fired for poor performance don't they?

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

lol

wait, wait, there are still people that defend Feaster?!

here's a guy that couldn't get a job for a year+, even though he 'built' a Stanley Cup winner, ran it into the ground, like Scorched Earth, two years after winning the Cup, gets credit for drafting Stamkos, a guy everyone knew was a stone cold lock for number 1 a year in advance...

And that's all before throwing in what he did in Calgary.

People realize he was fired for poor performance don't they?

Nobody is saying Feaster was great, but he was nowhere as bad as you want to make him. Just because someone was having trouble getting a job it doesn't mean they are useless. Lots of people with jobs that there is no way they should have.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I gotta laugh at folks who think the timing of the rebuild and the decision to trade Iginla were in Feaster's hands. King and Edwards weren't ready to pull the plug on the Iginla era until halfway through last season. They weren't about to employ a GM who told them what they didn't want to hear.

That's the reason a new layer was added to the Flames management structure - to keep the guy in King's role from meddling in hockey operations anymore.

Ignoring the 'I gotta laugh' comment and all that it oozes...

What makes you think you are right? What evidence do you have that King and Edwards were the ones refusing this? What makes you think that once they decided to let Sutter go, that they really weren't sure about what direction they wanted to go in, but Feaster sweet-talked them back into trying to remain competitive?

This is the story you have built to rationalize what went on. It doesn't mean it is the only story or the correct one. Nobody outside a certain level in the organization will know for sure what really went on with regards to the decision making.

All we know is that Feaster was the GM. We know that Feaster left Tampa due to meddling issues with the new owners there. You can say he was just following orders here after finally getting another shot as a GM and was willing to take orders, or you can think he was indeed acting on his own and doing what he thought best.

Until there is some factual concrete evidence, nobody is really 'right' or 'wrong'. I was merely commenting on the fact that for those 2 years, this organization tried to do both, until it finally fell apart.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Nobody is saying Feaster was great, but he was nowhere as bad as you want to make him. Just because someone was having trouble getting a job it doesn't mean they are useless. Lots of people with jobs that there is no way they should have.

he was pretty bad.

when you look at the moves of trying to sign Richards and ROR, the returns on JayBo and Iggy...the failure to see that the Flames should have been starting the rebuild 2 years earlier, when there were plenty of people saying that?

People can say that "management tied his hands", but guess what? That's why he was a bad GM...you think the owners would not have listened to a Ken Holland or a lou lamoriello or any number of respected GMs if they told them the ship was listing?

Good GMs have ownership on their side because of their track records, because they make the right decisions and they get people to support those decisions.

[Where ru Chris O'Sullivan]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

he was pretty bad.

when you look at the moves of trying to sign Richards and ROR, the returns on JayBo and Iggy...the failure to see that the Flames should have been starting the rebuild 2 years earlier, when there were plenty of people saying that?

People can say that "management tied his hands", but guess what? That's why he was a bad GM...you think the owners would not have listened to a Ken Holland or a lou lamoriello or any number of respected GMs if they told them the ship was listing?

Good GMs have ownership on their side because of their track records, because they make the right decisions and they get people to support those decisions.

and...

No matter what we know or don't know as fact, you can unequivocally say one thing about Feaster, you can see it in his eyes, he is a "Yes" man.

He was brought into the Flames organization to be an Asst. Gm, which many knew at the time was the role of GM in waiting. There were likely hundreds of backroom chats of how when he became GM, how things would proceed - a puppet.

The RoR fiasco opened ownership's eyes to the fact that a Newspaper publisher has no clue about how to draft, trade, run a hockey franchise (personnel wise) and it's likely not best practice to have a yes man underling as GM.

Daryl winning a cup nearly instantly after being re-employed, likely woke up some people.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Nobody is saying Feaster was great, but he was nowhere as bad as you want to make him. Just because someone was having trouble getting a job it doesn't mean they are useless. Lots of people with jobs that there is no way they should have.

Brian Burke for one.

[dying4acup]

The ROR signing alone was grounds for dismissal. An easy phone call for clarification could have avoided this mess. Could u imagine ROR playing for any team behind us in the standings at that point, and not having Monahan or Kanzig in the system at this point. The only reason Feaster wasn't fired sooner was that there wasn't a Brian Burke in waiting.

Truthfully not all that down on the Iginla or Bouwmeester trade. But not sad that Feaster is gone. If Burke does anything as president, he ensures a ROR disaster never happens again!

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by moon

I gotta laugh at people who think just because Edwards and King thought one way that that didn't mean Feaster agreed right along with them.

Anyone who disagreed wouldn't have got the job. If it wasn't Feaster playing patsy to King and his man-crush on Iginla, it would have been someone else. The rot in the Flames franchise during the late Iginla era ran all the way to the top.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Where ru Chris O'Sullivan

and...

Daryl winning a cup nearly instantly after being re-employed, likely woke up some people.

...to the fact he's a much better coach than GM.

[PeteMoss]

Every team Burke has led has been in better shape than when he arrived. Feaster can't say the same.

I get that Burke will have his detractors because he's a blowhard at times, but defending Feaster's performance against Burke's is not a winning argument.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Anyone who disagreed wouldn't have got the job. If it wasn't Feaster playing patsy to King and his man-crush on Iginla, it would have been someone else. The rot in the Flames franchise during the late Iginla era ran all the way to the top.

Darryl was saddled with the same limitations.

...to the fact he's a much better coach than GM.

I don't necessarily agree. When the Flames went to the finals, Darryl alluded to the fact that this was maybe the worst thing for the Flames rebuild. After that his marching orders were to make the playoffs, as anything could happen. Anything less and his job was on the line. Under that pressure he made some poor decisions for the future but the Flames made the playoffs for a few years until his luck ran out.

Yeah, Feaster took the job with the same limitations but he just didn't have much of a clue.

This is why I'm glad Burke is here. Even if he may not be great hockey guy, at least he's a hockey guy and should have some autonomy.

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Every team Burke has led has been in better shape than when he arrived. Feaster can't say the same.

I get that Burke will have his detractors because he's a blowhard at times, but defending Feaster's performance against Burke's is not a winning argument.

Do the names Monahan, Gaudreau, Knight, Poirier, Granlund, Wotherspoon, Hudler, Ramo, Klimchuk and Sieloff ring a bell? I would say Feaster did a pretty good job of stocking the cupboards that were bare for so long.

His only issue was return on trades.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Where ru Chris O'Sullivan

...

Just so you know, your signature is a joke. Really hard to take anything you say seriously with that drivel underlining / undermining anything you say.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Do the names Monahan, Gaudreau, Knight, Poirier, Granlund, Wotherspoon, Hudler, Ramo, Klimchuk and Sieloff ring a bell? I would say Feaster did a pretty good job of stocking the cupboards that were bare for so long.

His only issue was return on trades.

Only the bolded names have done something at the NHL level. The rest are still potentials. Just like Boyd, Howse etc were at one time. Let's hope these guys fair better then those guys.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Do the names Monahan, Gaudreau, Knight, Poirier, Granlund, Wotherspoon, Hudler, Ramo, Klimchuk and Sieloff ring a bell? I would say Feaster did a pretty good job of stocking the cupboards that were bare for so long.

His only issue was return on trades.

I'll write this again, he got some of those prospects through failure. While I like Poirier and Klimchuk that's like saying Shero trades Crosby for the 22nd and 28th pick and he gets hailed for restocking the cupboards.

Also putting in Ramo and Hudler is a stretch. What about Wideman, Galiardi, Cervenka ect.?

[The Original FFIV]

Here's a different angle. Feaster didn't make use of his cap space by not signing Nyquist to an offer sheet over the summer. He could have offer sheeted nyquist at $3m per season and acquired a quality prospect for a 2nd round pick. Yeah, he would have pissed off Holland but we would have been better off with Nyquist in our starting lineup than not. Given Detroits cap situation, they would have had no other option but to let nyquist go or sell some of their other assets for cents on the dollar. Feaster could have done the same with the Kings and Clifford as they were pushed up against the cap.

Feasters inability to use cap space in this manner is as much of an indictment as turning down Detroits purported offer for Bouw. Couldn't close the deal(s) when it counted.

[FlameZilla]

Which package would you have preferred for Bouwmeester?:

A)
1st round pick (22nd)--> Emile Poirier
Reto Berra --> 2014 2nd round pick
Mark Cundari

or

B)
Gustav Nyquist
Tomas Tatar
2nd round pick