Ongoing YYCCC (Chu + Farkas) Transgressions Threat

[Ozy_Flame]

Hard data over anecdotal evidence. Every time.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

They also put up those wire barriers, and they are already damaged in several places. I do wonder why they didn't just put one up the middle...

Yeah one in the middle would have been better as they are so close to the curb that if a car bumps into the curb they could almost make contact. I have to admit the reflectors on them light up like a christmas tree in the dark.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Hard data over anecdotal evidence. Every time.

I got no issue with hard data. Has it ever been disclosed?

[Jimmy Stang]

The justification (from the article) is that it isn't the number of collisions, but the severity of the collisions that do happen.

Part of the impetus for the changes was a high rate of collisions leading to injuries. This is particularly true at Charleswood Drive N.W., where 21 per cent of collisions ended in injuries compared to an average of 10 per cent elsewhere in the city. There have been 90 collisions at that intersection since 2015, including 19 resulting in injuries.

Basically it comes down to it being a fast road and drivers generally having poor judgment.

I really like the idea banning of left turns across there in rush hour. I'd even argue to make all three of those intersections permanently "right in, right out". But that would obviously not go over well with the residents of those communities. But if you're going to keep it free flow, then go for it 100%. If not, then it has to be adjusted to account for how terrible people are at turning on fast roads.

[RedHot25]

Just as an example, from the Herald article you are responding to
:

Part of the impetus for the changes was a high rate of collisions leading to injuries. This is particularly true at Charleswood Drive N.W., where 21 per cent of collisions ended in injuries compared to an average of 10 per cent elsewhere in the city. There have been 90 collisions at that intersection since 2015, including 19 resulting in injuries

“There have been collision issues, including a number of serious-injury collisions, so measures do need to be taken to address this,” said Pat Grisak, the city’s mobility management co-ordinator.

The safety statistics indicate something needs to be done and the recommendations made are sound to address the safety concerns,” Whiteman wrote.

I think I read more in another article, I will see if I can find.

But I drive that road for eg school drop off mornings and school pick up afternoons. It's not pretty with the crossing issues in my experience.

[RedHot25]

Look, I too have lots of complaints about the city, but this isn't one.

[Erick Estrada]

When you consider thousands of Calgarians take that route daily that's a low number over 7 years. Seems pretty extreme to me. Hopefully the timing of the lights is handled a lot better than other areas of the city.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

When you consider thousands of Calgarians take that route daily that's a low number over 7 years. Seems pretty extreme to me. Hopefully the timing of the lights is handled a lot better than other areas of the city.

But the rate of injuries is significant. More than double the city average.

I agree about the timing of the lights. I would add that the turning lane from WB John Laurie to SB Charleswood will need to be considered for expansion, otherwise we'll see it overflow and start blocking one of the lanes going straight through.

I already avoid John Laurie if I have to make a left turn during peak time. There are ways around it by using Northmount, Crowchild, 14th, etc. It just isn't worth the wasted time waiting to turn.

[btimbit]

Would prefer just no left turns onto JLB anywhere and skip the lights entirely, but I get the justification for it.

As someone that's responded to several calls on that stretch of JLB over the years, I understand this decision

[CPK80]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I got no issue with hard data. Has it ever been disclosed?

The City of Calgary has a open data portal;

Here is the Traffic Incidents page; https://data.calgary.ca/Transportati...ents/35ra-9556

[PsYcNeT]

Seems like similar data and justification used to remove left-turns crossing traffic at Country Hills Boulevard and Harvest Hills Boulevard a couple years ago, which normal non-morons were able to safely navigate, but for some reason idiots managed to cause a massive accident once every couple months for decades before they changed it.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

But the rate of injuries is significant. More than double the city average.

I agree about the timing of the lights. I would add that the turning lane from WB John Laurie to SB Charleswood will need to be considered for expansion, otherwise we'll see it overflow and start blocking one of the lanes going straight through.

I already avoid John Laurie if I have to make a left turn during peak time. There are ways around it by using Northmount, Crowchild, 14th, etc. It just isn't worth the wasted time waiting to turn.

I make a left onto 19th from JLB quite often, never have to wait more than 30 seconds. I don't see why there are so many accidents, the intersections are in the dips, so you have good visibility of oncoming traffic. Just another case of people who shouldn't have licenses ruining it for the rest of us.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I make a left onto 19th from JLB quite often, never have to wait more than 30 seconds. I don't see why there are so many accidents, the intersections are in the dips, so you have good visibility of oncoming traffic. Just another case of people who shouldn't have licenses ruining it for the rest of us.

I don't make that turn on my daily commute so I can respect that others may see things differently but when you look at the low number of incidents this is exactly a case of a minute number of individuals ruining it for everyone else. I would expect overall collisions to increase at the intersection due to fender benders and people blowing red lights which is always a byproduct of lighted intersections where traffic is heavy. Time will tell if this accomplishes anything positive or makes things worse.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

The lights are going in and should be done by late October.

https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...collision-rate

As noted above, only one set of lights is being proposed. More info (including some of the underlying data) can be found here -- https://www.calgary.ca/roads/john-la...rovements.html -- although it doesn't compare JLB to other roads in terms of total number of collisions.

Seeing a higher rate of injury collisions make sense though -- especially if you have drivers trying to turn left onto WB John Laurie. Traffic going both ways at 70 km/h (in reality closer to 80), and drivers getting impatient, especially during a busy rush hour commute.

Presumably part of the rationale for the lights on Charleswood is to accommodate the increased turning traffic that will be created during rush hour (i.e. when left turns are prohibited on 19th and Brisbois)?

[RedHot25]

The city has a dedicated website to this work: https://www.calgary.ca/roads/john-la...rovements.html

Scroll down halfway and there is a presentation you can open that has lots of data in it; or can see if this direct link works: https://www.calgary.ca/content/dam/w...provements.pdf

[RedHot25]

I would likely be in the group of keeping it free flowing BUT no cross turns. I e. if going east only right hand turns.

But in looking at the data, I can see what they are trying in terms of compromise. The one intersection has significant injuries, hence the lights. The others have issues at certain timeframes, hence limiting the turns then (although, honestly, I think a lot of people will just ignore that).

[Fuzz]

It would make sense to add a U-turn route for 19th st. Have traffic go to 14th st. The pedestrian island on the bridge is big. Take part of it out and have a u turn only route that isn't light restricted, and place the pedestrian crosswalk east of it. Have a yield sign.

https://goo.gl/maps/XDXBAWr5DvNoF6k57

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

As noted above, only one set of lights is being proposed. More info (including some of the underlying data) can be found here -- https://www.calgary.ca/roads/john-la...rovements.html -- although it doesn't compare JLB to other roads in terms of total number of collisions.

The presentation I linked to has this, fyi, at least in terms of comparison to city averages.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Still surprised how low-key this council has been keeping.

Funny, how bouncing a councilor with a penchant for obstruction, antagonizing his peers, grandstanding, and the occasional outright lie will do that.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

It would make sense to add a U-turn route for 19th st. Have traffic go to 14th st. The pedestrian island on the bridge is big. Take part of it out and have a u turn only route that isn't light restricted, and place the pedestrian crosswalk east of it. Have a yield sign.

https://goo.gl/maps/XDXBAWr5DvNoF6k57

This would be very smart indeed. Not unlike Glenmore/Macleod, Bowfort Road, and many others I'm sure.

If you really want/need to head West from 19th or Brisebois, head east to 14th, loop around, head west. Or pick a different route entirely. I'm surprised that the u-turn at 14th hasn't been considered in all of this.