2024 Off-season trade rumours and speculation thread

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by Bonded

It was not the contracts it was that the owner did not want to and waited until they were so bad they had to



Or they hopefully don't try to re-tool and just embrace the suck. If they trade Markstrom, Andersson, Sharangovich, and Kuzmenko they will be a bottom three team instead of a bottom ten team. Extra credit if they can trade Kadri for some value

That's been my fear with the philosophy the Flames have chosen. So far, Conroy didn't want to "retool," but was forced into it as all the UFAs last year still wanted out even with the new coaching regime. The other shoe could drop this year if Andersson, Sharangovich, Kuzmenko, Coleman, Kadri and even Huberdeau hate the suckage enough to want out as well.

Hopefully, Conroy lets it play out and makes deals around the seams and doesn't do anything desperate to bring in a big name that costs significant futures. He seems to be letting the team dictate his moves, but you never know.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by YyjFlames

Hopefully, Conroy lets it play out and makes deals around the seams and doesn't do anything desperate to bring in a big name that costs significant futures. He seems to be letting the team dictate his moves, but you never know.

Will be interesting if our goaltending tandem in the fall is Wolf and (Insert Named that isn't Markstrom here)

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Well sure but the Sharks are really funny example to try and use as an example of a team embracing a rebuild and getting two high end centre prospects. Read through the links I posted and you can basically replace Sharks with Flames and read the same stuff as we are discussing now.

If they used Chicago then I'd agree, they went scorched earth to get Bedard.

Only once they had already tried to hold off going scorched earth and traded away a 12th OV pick, and a 6th OV pick for Seth Jones.

Sure once they were already bad and had traded a 6th OV pick by accident they decided to go scorched earth, but they still fell backwards into that.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by YyjFlames

That's been my fear with the philosophy the Flames have chosen. So far, Conroy didn't want to "retool," but was forced into it as all the UFAs last year still wanted out even with the new coaching regime. The other shoe could drop this year if Andersson, Sharangovich, Kuzmenko, Coleman, Kadri and even Huberdeau hate the suckage enough to want out as well.

Hopefully, Conroy lets it play out and makes deals around the seams and doesn't do anything desperate to bring in a big name that costs significant futures. He seems to be letting the team dictate his moves, but you never know.

So far his moves have been more rebuild flavoured outside of the Toffoli trade and as long as he sticks to that path then I am not too worried. If he makes a move for a guy like Necas or some dumb UFA signings then I will fully prepare for the Sharks model lol.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Only once they had already tried to hold off going scorched earth and traded away a 12th OV pick, and a 6th OV pick for Seth Jones.

Sure once they were already bad and had traded a 6th OV pick by accident they decided to go scorched earth, but they still fell backwards into that.

Yeah, they obviously didn't think they'd be giving up the 6th overall for Jones as well but they could have stuck to the re-tool route after that and didn't. It is like the Flames right now, they can either embrace a rebuild or try and re-tool around a bad core.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Yeah, they obviously didn't think they'd be giving up the 6th overall for Jones as well but they could have stuck to the re-tool route after that and didn't. It is like the Flames right now, they can either embrace a rebuild or try and re-tool around a bad core.

2018-19 the Sharks had a .616 point percent and lost in the 3rd round of the playoffs. The next 3 years they did not bottom out but each year key core players were not re-signed. Burns and Karlsson were a bit tricky to move as they were older and very higher priced. It took a bit longer to move them out, but they showed a youth movement 1 year after falling down the standings. Can't really blame an owner for holding on to some key core players until it was certain they weren't going to make it. That team had long term success with some guys that had been there most of the time. Joe Thornton has finally retired, but Pavelski is still a key contributor to a team that might be in the Finals here in a week.

Out of the 5 years since they were a good team, they have added Celebrini and Smith in the last 2 so they definitely didn't drag their feet on the rebuild for very long after their run at the top was over.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

2018-19 the Sharks had a .616 point percent and lost in the 3rd round of the playoffs. The next 3 years they did not bottom out but each year key core players were not re-signed. Burns and Karlsson were a bit tricky to move as they were older and very higher priced. It took a bit longer to move them out, but they showed a youth movement 1 year after falling down the standings. Can't really blame an owner for holding on to some key core players until it was certain they weren't going to make it. That team had long term success with some guys that had been there most of the time. Joe Thornton has finally retired, but Pavelski is still a key contributor to a team that might be in the Finals here in a week.

Out of the 5 years since they were a good team, they have added Celebrini and Smith in the last 2 so they definitely didn't drag their feet on the rebuild for very long after their run at the top was over.

That's the point, though. Flames aren't dragging their feet on the rebuild, they're slowly falling into it. Last year, they canned Sutter, Treleving moved on, they hired a new, more positive coaching regime and they replaced a 30 goal scorer for a 30 goal scorer. They wanted to remain competitive, but the team's early results showed them (and the expiring UFAs) that they weren't going to win with that roster and they shifted to a "retool" philosophy.

This next year might push them into a full rebuild, just like 2021/22 in San Jose, when the team still sucks and if the rest of the leadership group demands out rather than wait for the retool. Our Smith/Celebrini comes in 2026 and 2027 if we end up on this path.

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by YyjFlames

That's the point, though. Flames aren't dragging their feet on the rebuild, they're slowly falling into it. Last year, they canned Sutter, Treleving moved on, they hired a new, more positive coaching regime and they replaced a 30 goal scorer for a 30 goal scorer. They wanted to remain competitive, but the team's early results showed them (and the expiring UFAs) that they weren't going to win with that roster and they shifted to a "retool" philosophy.

This next year might push them into a full rebuild, just like 2021/22 in San Jose, when the team still sucks and if the rest of the leadership group demands out rather than wait for the retool. Our Smith/Celebrini comes in 2026 and 2027 if we end up on this path.

THis is the way i see it as well.

If the team comes out next year and is a complete dumpster fire in the first two months, any or all of sharangovich, kuzmenko, backlund, kadri, weegar, anderson, mangiapane, markstrom, vladar may all want to seek greener pastures.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by YyjFlames

That's the point, though. Flames aren't dragging their feet on the rebuild, they're slowly falling into it. Last year, they canned Sutter, Treleving moved on, they hired a new, more positive coaching regime and they replaced a 30 goal scorer for a 30 goal scorer. They wanted to remain competitive, but the team's early results showed them (and the expiring UFAs) that they weren't going to win with that roster and they shifted to a "retool" philosophy.

This next year might push them into a full rebuild, just like 2021/22 in San Jose, when the team still sucks and if the rest of the leadership group demands out rather than wait for the retool. Our Smith/Celebrini comes in 2026 and 2027 if we end up on this path.

It's still a bit early to say this though, this summer will tell us a lot on how committed this franchise is to a rebuild similar to SJ has done. They are positioned well to get their but might also look at this young team as being more ready to compete then they are.

SJ was said to be forced into their rebuild. My point is they had a core together for much much longer than we did and had much deeper runs in the playoffs than we did and really the rebuild might have only took 1 maybe 2 years for their ownership to except they need to move on from that core group that brought many years sucess to that team. Joe Thornton probably was an easy decision but moving on from Pavelski who was and is still good was a sign they were rebuilding. Burns and Karlsson contract blocked them from getting on the rebuild earlier, but they got those deals done and have since added very high-end pieces once they could find those deals.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Fan69

THis is the way i see it as well.

If the team comes out next year and is a complete dumpster fire in the first two months, any or all of sharangovich, kuzmenko, backlund, kadri, weegar, anderson, mangiapane, markstrom, vladar may all want to seek greener pastures.

I agree they are likely in this position by November next season, assuming we don't re-sign players this summer...

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

2018-19 the Sharks had a .616 point percent and lost in the 3rd round of the playoffs. The next 3 years they did not bottom out but each year key core players were not re-signed.

The Sharks chose Karlsson over Pavelski basically. They gave Hertl a long term contract after missing the playoffs for three years and Granlund a 4 year contract after missing the playoffs for two years. Marleau and Thornton left to chase a cup.
I am not arguing that the Flames are in a better spot than them but that you can't point to them as an example of a team that proactively managed into a rebuild.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Fan69

THis is the way i see it as well.

If the team comes out next year and is a complete dumpster fire in the first two months, any or all of sharangovich, kuzmenko, backlund, kadri, weegar, anderson, mangiapane, markstrom, vladar may all want to seek greener pastures.

I don't see it as an if. The roster suggests dumpster fire even if all of these players are here. The backend is a mess and I don't see them meaningfully addressing through UFA.

The team projects to be bottom 10, if not bottom 5. Some of those players being moved only further solidifies this.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Bonded

The Sharks chose Karlsson over Pavelski basically. They gave Hertl a long term contract after missing the playoffs for three years and Granlund a 4 year contract after missing the playoffs for two years. Marleau and Thornton left to chase a cup.
I am not arguing that the Flames are in a better spot than them but that you can't point to them as an example of a team that proactively managed into a rebuild.

There was also a comment that ownership blocked a rebuild in those first few years.

The Sharks had a dominant stretch of 15 years where they were in the finals once and conference finals 4 times. 15 years where you have some players there for most or all of it. Owners who had relationships with star players for decade or more and they had success for a decade together. It only took 1 or 2 years to start the tank job, IMO this was planned. They only had 2 years of limbo of maybe retooling over rebuilding. Once they commited, they traded players for picks and retained salary and went full tank to get Smith and Celebrini.

Flames should not be married to our players, these guys haven't been here as long or had anywhere near as much success. Yet we still could be retooling, this summer will tell us a lot.

[hillspeak]

If you are Craig, do you offer Matt Dumba a $2.25M contract for year to add a solid veteran? He is not as offensive as once was but can easily fill a 5 -6 role.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

There was also a comment that ownership blocked a rebuild in those first few years.
Flames should not be married to our players, these guys haven't been here as long or had anywhere near as much success. Yet we still could be retooling, this summer will tell us a lot.

Sharks aside, I agree. It will be a pivotal summer where the can is kicked down the road another couple years or they actually embrace a rebuild. Trading Markstrom in the summer and the UFAs between by the deadline with no dumb UFAs signings or trades will be ideal.

[Ba'alzamon]

Originally Posted by hillspeak

If you are Craig, do you offer Matt Dumba a $2.25M contract for year to add a solid veteran? He is not as offensive as once was but can easily fill a 5 -6 role.

No. Dumba would have to improve significantly to be considered "solid"

I'm 100% completely convinced the Flames would get better results giving a regular roster spot to Yan Kuznetsov.

[Icon]

Originally Posted by hillspeak

If you are Craig, do you offer Matt Dumba a $2.25M contract for year to add a solid veteran? He is not as offensive as once was but can easily fill a 5 -6 role.

Whyyyyy

We just acquired a bunch more D last season, also have some from the A last year who will likely compete for a spot, and most importantly I just don't think Dumba brings anything to the table worth offering any $ for.

So in otherwords, if I'm Craig, no.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Icon

Whyyyyy

We just acquired a bunch more D last season, also have some from the A last year who will likely compete for a spot, and most importantly I just don't think Dumba brings anything to the table worth offering any $ for.

So in otherwords, if I'm Craig, no.

I’d do it if the Flames trade Andersson

[Icon]

I'm not even sure it's a stretch, I think I'd rather re-sign Michael Stone again than sign Dumba.

[Tbull8]

I’ve been pushing the dumba narrative for a while now. Feels like a perfect stop gap guy to have while we rebuild. Calgary kid, good veteran, won’t cost a ton and could be flipped in a year or 2 depending on contract length. Could do a lot worse