2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Seguin? Johansen? ROR?

Here are some of the centers traded in the last handful of years:


At the time of their trades:

ROR1 (23) - 0.21 gpg / 0.57 ppg - Highs of 28g / 64p
ROR2 (26) - 0.23 gpg / 0.64 ppg - Highs of 28g / 64p

Kadri (28) - 0.28 gpg / 0.63 ppr - Highs of 32g / 61p
Schenn (25) - 0.25 gpg / 0.57 ppg - Highs of 26g / 59p

Miller (25) - 0.21 gpg / 0.54 ppg - Highs of 23g / 58p
Johansen (23) - 0.25 gpg / 0.65 ppg - Highs of 33g / 71p

Duchene (27) - 0.30 gpg / 0.73 ppg - Highs of 30g / 70p
Monahan (25) - 0.35 gpg / 0.76 ppg - Highs of 34g / 82p

Didn't include Seguin because he was traded at 21 and was buried behind Bergeron and Krejci and/or playing wing.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Has starting top prospects off as "third line centres" ever worked, for anyone?

The Oilers thought Draisaitl could be a third line centre for him, and that flopped and they sent him back to junior. The player didn't see success until he played top six with Hall in his sophomore season.

Monahan, despite the goalscoring numbers, had a pretty miserable rookie season as a third line centre.

Sam Bennett, we all remember his sophomore season.

What about Dylan Strome in Arizona? How did he look as the Coyotes' 3C?

I dunno, I just don't this is a good plan as you state it. Not because Cozens isn't talented, but because I don't think you put top prospects out of junior into that role and expect good results.

Cozens has already gone back to junior for a season, as to not be rushed to the pro leagues. He is turning pro next year, one way or the other. As you listed, starting off a skilled center on the third line is generally considered a valid strategy by coaches. More often they are started on the wing with a veteran centre, to learn the ropes, like what happened with Dube this season.

If it will make the transition easier, then third line wing with pp time. It's really up to the coach. The point is, that he is not a fourth line player, and he will be given every opportunity to stick with an NHL club. That is pretty much a sure thing if he stays in Buffalo.

That's two years ahead of the development time of any draft pick this year. Cozens has more value to the Flames than the 8th.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I think I'd put him third.

Seguin
ROR
Monahan
Johansen
Kadri

Johansen gets is overhyped IMO. Guy hasn't scored more than 15 goals in 5 seasons, and is comparable to Monahan defensively.

In either case, I think both ROR and Seguin got underwhelming returns, and I think that's probably similar, even a bit less, to what we would get for Monahan.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Is the headshaking in relation to the Monahan comparison?

Did you read the Monahan draft year projections? Lol if anything they were even better than Cozen's.

Player development is not linear.

Yeah, I remember Monahan being compared to Eric Staal.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Cozens has already gone back to junior for a season, as to not be rushed to the pro leagues. He is turning pro next year, one way or the other. As you listed, starting off a skilled center on the third line is generally considered a valid strategy by coaches. More often they are started on the wing with a veteran centre, to learn the ropes, like what happened with Dube this season.

Cozens actually still isn't eligible for the AHL. If he's not in the NHL next season, he has to play in the WHL (or European leagues I suppose).

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

In either case, I think both ROR and Seguin got underwhelming returns, and I think that's probably similar, even a bit less, to what we would get for Monahan.

Both those GMs also got fired.

...hell, one of them has been fired twice.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Has starting top prospects off as "third line centres" ever worked, for anyone?

The Oilers thought Draisaitl could be a third line centre for him, and that flopped and they sent him back to junior. The player didn't see success until he played top six with Hall in his sophomore season.

Monahan, despite the goalscoring numbers, had a pretty miserable rookie season as a third line centre.

Sam Bennett, we all remember his sophomore season.

What about Dylan Strome in Arizona? How did he look as the Coyotes' 3C?

I dunno, I just don't this is a good plan as you state it. Not because Cozens isn't talented, but because I don't think you put top prospects out of junior into that role and expect good results.

How did Mackinnon's rookie season go as their third line centre (behind Duchene & ROR). How do you compare Monahan's rookie season to Mackinnon's?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Monahan gets a bad rap sometimes. He's not an elite 1C but he's a 1C

Over the last 5 seasons he ranks 24th among listed centers in points per game. He also ranks 21st among listed centers in 5 on 5 points per 60 minutes.

The guy is a 1C

Over his career so far (including his rookie year AND his most recent 'down year') he's averaged 0.36 goals per game and 0.76 points per game.

That's 30 goals and 62 points per 82 game season. He's also durable as all hell only missing less than 20 games over his entire 7 year career so far.

Matt Duchene at the time of his trade from Colorado to Ottawa was 27 years old, had a little over a year and a half left on his contract ($6 million AAV IIRC) and to that point in his career had produced 0.31 goals per game and 0.73 points per game.

Monahan is younger, signed longer and has produced more than Duchene when he was dealt. Plus Duchene had publicly asked for a trade on top of everything else.

If the Flames trade Monahan without getting a massive haul back comparable to the Duchene trade if it's futures, the trade should be nixed by ownership and Treliving fired immediately.

You’re laying it on a little thick. Suggesting a GM should be fired immediately smacks of over emotional fan, doesn’t it?

The only way I trade Monahan is if a younger C is coming back with No1upside. Cozens may fit that bill. Regardless, I don’t think the Flames will trade Monahan.

The guy I look at while making comparisons to Monahan isn’t Duschene, it’s Horvat. Picked three spots after, I’m having a hard time thinking the Flames took the right C.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by TOfan

You’re laying it on a little thick. Suggesting a GM should be fired immediately smacks of over emotional fan, doesn’t it?

The only way I trade Monahan is if a younger C is coming back with No1upside. Cozens may fit that bill. Regardless, I don’t think the Flames will trade Monahan.

The guy I look at while making comparisons to Monahan isn’t Duschene, it’s Horvat. Picked three spots after, I’m having a hard time thinking the Flames took the right C.

Haha, my mind at that moment was thinking of the rumor damage posted in here how he heard from a source with ties to the team that a Monahan for Ristolainen was seriously discussed and I did get a little emotional for a moment. Hopefully that rumor is complete BS or was missing a big part.

[BigErnSalute_16]

Question for you guys. Hypothetically, If, through a series of trades (ie Monahan and Gaudreau), the Flames ended up in the draft with 7 and 8 OA, and LA took Stutzle at 2 would you be willing to trade 7 and 8 for 3 to draft Byfield or would you rather have two great prospect bullets in the chamber plus our pick at 19?

would that be enough for Ottawa? would you do the trade if it was 7,8 and 19?

[PepsiFree]

I'd rather have 7 and 8. Byfield isn't a sure thing, and I think you stand a better chance of getting a player out of 7 and 8 than just 3.

Byfield could turn out to be the next Jumbo Joe, but he could also be the next player you forgot was drafted that high.

[dammage79]

Take the highest pick, take Raymond or Holtz. Take the other pick, trade down, Take Jarvis, call it a 1st round.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Both those GMs also got fired.

...hell, one of them has been fired twice.

Sounds like trading young centres get you fired, and isn’t the best idea !

[dissentowner]

I can't see either Monahan nor Gaudreau getting traded this year.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Haha, my mind at that moment was thinking of the rumor damage posted in here how he heard from a source with ties to the team that a Monahan for Ristolainen was seriously discussed and I did get a little emotional for a moment. Hopefully that rumor is complete BS or was missing a big part.

The Ristolainen rumour is BS. Bruke has talked about Chris Snow squashing a deal with the Sabres for Ristolainen years ago. Not sure why this may have changed. And for Monahan? That’s nonsense.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Sounds like trading young centres get you fired, and isn’t the best idea !

And 3/4 of those trades involving centers look like huge mistakes in hindsight. The only one that looks good is acquiring a young defenceman with huge potential that was taken 4th overall.

I'm fine with trading Monahan, I guess. But the return should be huge, or it's going to be a mistake.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by BigErnSalute_16

Question for you guys. Hypothetically, If, through a series of trades (ie Monahan and Gaudreau), the Flames ended up in the draft with 7 and 8 OA, and LA took Stutzle at 2 would you be willing to trade 7 and 8 for 3 to draft Byfield or would you rather have two great prospect bullets in the chamber plus our pick at 19?

would that be enough for Ottawa? would you do the trade if it was 7,8 and 19?

I wouldn't trade 7 and 8 for #3, would rather have 2 picks.

However, I would look at adding to one of those picks to try and move up to #3. #8 plus Mangiapane maybe?

[Roof-Daddy]

Murray, Jarry, Korpisalo, Raanta, Fleury, Georgiev all confirmed to be or likely to be on the trade market, Lehner and Markstrom both still pending UFA's, although I suspect both will be extended before free agency.

Interesting names, the cost to acquire is always worrisome though. Especially with a goalie.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Murray, Jarry, Korpisalo, Raanta, Fleury, Georgiev all confirmed to be or likely to be on the trade market, Lehner and Markstrom both still pending UFA's, although I suspect both will be extended before free agency.

Interesting names, the cost to acquire is always worrisome though. Especially with a goalie.

I wonder if the Flames might use Hanafin to pursue a goalie (Murray or one of the CBJ’s goalies).

I believe Treliving had tried to get Murray out of Pittsburgh before he had won his cups.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

How did Mackinnon's rookie season go as their third line centre (behind Duchene & ROR). How do you compare Monahan's rookie season to Mackinnon's?

MacKinnon played RW in his rookie season, on their first line with Landeskog and Stastny. I believe ROR also played wing that year. That team had its five best forwards in its top six.