IOC not happy with Canadian women's ice hockey gold celebration

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

Isn't the men's marathon dominated by Kenyans and Ethiopians? But it would be ludicrous to even suggest getting rid of that event!

If there's men's ski jumping at the games there should be women's as well.

You guys keep ignoring the fact that Kenyans/Ethiopians may dominate, but the others are very competitive. In women's hockey there is no competion - none - beyond the top 2. And it looks to be getting worse - Finland/Sweden used to be remotely close to US/Canada - now they are getting blown out like the rest.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

Isn't the men's marathon dominated by Kenyans and Ethiopians? But it would be ludicrous to even suggest getting rid of that event!

If there's men's ski jumping at the games there should be women's as well.

So, we should have men's rhythmic gymnastics?

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by troutman

So, we should have men's rhythmic gymnastics?

Wasn't that in the Big Lebowski? Oh wait, that was interprative dance...

[Flacker]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Good post. I can't speak for bobsleigh for sure, but even taking sports I have more knowledge of - X-country and speed-skating - the women seem just as good as men, just slower. The sports are very competitive and eminently watchable - the Hughes final skate, Sablikova's awesome skating - very impressive stuff...

There is that statement again, in timed events the women are slower, not just as good. Your logic is flawed.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Flacker

There is that statement again, in timed events the women are slower, not just as good. Your logic is flawed.

Sorry, you've completely disqualified yourself from speaking about logic. You know - just as technically good, proper form, etc? Just not as much physical power. Like, Sablikova is as good a skater as any male speedskater, just not as strong. BTW, do you know that as the distances get longer, the women get closer and closer to men, and in the super-endurance running races (like 100 km), women often win?

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

I could care less about cages because that doesn't affect the game play.

Really? It's a hell of a lot harder to play with a full cage then a half-visor and/or nothing. don't get me wrong, I play with a full cage because I'm not going to mangle my face for my beer league team, but some of the "sloppy" play could be attributed to vision. Ask any NHLer who doesn't wear a half shield why he won't.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by troutman

So, we should have men's rhythmic gymnastics?

I prefer to deny the existence of that "event" regardless of gender.

[GGG]

I don't know if it has been brought up yet but in a timed event as opposed to a head to head event it doesn't look as bad when one country dominates. A bobsledder can lose by 4 seconds and flip their sled but it doesn't look like the faster sled is "running up the score"

It the optics of women's hockey that are terrible. Canada and the US should be instructing their teams to do whatever is possible while still competing to improve the optics of Women's hockey. This would mean not celebrating at all on goals after going up 5 points. And maybe even shutting it down after going up 5 nothing so that all the games are less then double digit losses. The celebration, while I don't have any issues with it, looks bad when played to the world media. Again its bad optics for a sport under the microscope.

It seems that everytime someone questions the validity of Women's hockey in the Olympics our team becomes defiant and dominates more and celebrates more. If I am part of hockey canada I would be working with the US to attempt to improve the optics of women's hockey. Because if this continues I would suspect after another two olympics it will be gone.

[Flacker]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Sorry, you've completely disqualified yourself from speaking about logic. You know - just as technically good, proper form, etc? Just not as much physical power. Like, Sablikova is as good a skater as any male speedskater, just not as strong. BTW, do you know that as the distances get longer, the women get closer and closer to men, and in the super-endurance running races (like 100 km), women often win?

Is this because I think Canada sucks at basketball? LOL. I realize we have produced some great players we just lack the development programs and big NCAA dollars. I was just trying to think of a sport that Canadian men typically suck at. Soccer or baseball may have been a better examples. Bad example, I'll be the first to admit it.

Women are better physically at quite a few things. They excel in roles typically dominated by men. For example, women make better fighter pilots than men due to their physical makeup. They withstand higher g-loads, have faster reaction times, and weigh less.

On topic, I think the celebration while classless and in bad judgement shoudn't take anything away from the fact that these girls are the best in the world at what they do.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by Flacker

Is this because I think Canada sucks at basketball? LOL. I realize we have produced some great players we just lack the development programs and big NCAA dollars. I was just trying to think of a sport that Canadian men typically suck at. Soccer or baseball may have been a better examples. Bad example, I'll be the first to admit it.

Women are better physically at quite a few things. They excel in roles typically dominated by men. For example, women make better fighter pilots than men due to their physical makeup. They withstand higher g-loads, have faster reaction times, and weigh less.

On topic, I think the celebration while classless and in bad judgement shoudn't take anything away from the fact that these girls are the best in the world at what they do.

Just to be fussy they do not make better fighter pilots but they do make better helicopter pilots

[calumniate]

It was funny to see the Finnish olympic team without their helmets. A bunch of skater chicks! They seemed to be so chill, happy with a bronze or whatever. Next year I'm cheering for the fins

[RogerWilco]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

Why is it wrong to think a sport is bad if children can beat them at it?

Other women's events aren't nearly the same. You can't say the same thing for women's skiing, for example. But you can for hockey. Why is that? And why is it bad to question it?

I am not sure where you are getting your information from but the Canadian women did pretty well in the alberta Midget League this year tin preparation for the olympics. Canada went 16-10 in league play in the Alberta Midget Hockey League and 20-10 overall against midget teams, including exhibition games. The games were counted in the standings for the Midget teams so they were competitive.

[the_professsor]

Originally Posted by RogerWilco

I am not sure where you are getting your information from but the Canadian women did pretty well in the alberta Midget League this year tin preparation for the olympics. Canada went 16-10 in league play in the Alberta Midget Hockey League and 20-10 overall against midget teams, including exhibition games. The games were counted in the standings for the Midget teams so they were competitive.

he gets his information from fantasyworld, that's why it's hard to argue with him

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by RogerWilco

I am not sure where you are getting your information from but the Canadian women did pretty well in the alberta Midget League this year tin preparation for the olympics. Canada went 16-10 in league play in the Alberta Midget Hockey League and 20-10 overall against midget teams, including exhibition games. The games were counted in the standings for the Midget teams so they were competitive.

What about my statement was incorrect?

[RogerWilco]

Originally Posted by Brad Marsh

I think the problem is that when most of us envision an Olympic Gold Medalist, regardless of the gender, we think of an elite athlete.

With nearly every other Olympic sport in which women compete, the ones winning the medals are elite athletes in every sense of the word. Not so with hockey.

Take any sport you want and I bet the elite women in that sport would completely dominate the "average" male athlete. For example, I'm sure there are a lot of very strong skaters on this forum, perhaps even some that have participated or competed in speed-skating - do you really think many (any?) of them could beat the 37 year old Clara Hughs in a race? Not likely.

I live in the same town that Becky Scott (gold medal winning cross-country skiier) grew up in. A lot of people cross-country ski here at a relatively high level. Becky Scott could beat any one of them and it's not even close - male or female. She is elite in her sport.

Another example. I compete in triathlons and tend to do fairly well in most races - nearly always close to the top of my age group, and have even finished first overall at a race. But when I'm in a race against professional triathletes, the women totally clean my clock. The only ones to beat them are usually the pro men. They are dominant when compared to the "average" athlete, regardless of gender. And most of these professional women would still be at least one tier below athletes making the Olympic team and especially below the ones winning the Olympic medals.

It just isn't the same with hockey. You could piece a team together of beer league players who post on this forum and that team would route the women's national team.

I think that's the problem people have with this - these women just aren't at what the average hockey fan would consider to be an elite level for their sport. Of course it would be unfair for people to critically say that the Olympic Men's team could beat the Women's team, and therefore the Women's team isn't any good at hockey - but that's not what anyone is saying here at all. What people are saying is that most Jr. B teams across small town Alberta could probably beat these Gold Medal Champions. And it's actually happened. There's nothing elite about that.

It's not about being sexist (not sure why that card was even played), and it's not about taking anything away from the Gold Medal - because this team was the best in the world at what they do. And I should add that I was behind them 100% and was thrilled that they won. But at the same time I can understand why people aren't viewing this as some monumental Olympic acheivement.

And with respect to the center-ice celebration, it probably wouldn't be that big of a deal without the context Jiri alluded to earlier in the thread. When you see this team repeatedly celebrate like they just scored the overtime winning goal in the gold medal game, but in reality they just made it 8 or 9 or 10 nothing, something like this center-ice thing just rubs people the wrong way. I'm not sure that what happened here was overly outrageous, and I certainly don't think it warrants an IOC investigation, but I consider it to be classless.

So you think the AVERAGE beer league team could beat a AAA midget team? The Canadian women do at .750

[RogerWilco]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

What about my statement was incorrect?

You said they could be beat by children which is obviously not the case. They beat AAA Midget teams at .750

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by RogerWilco

You said they could beat children which is obviously not the case. They beat AAA Midget teams at .750

I said children can beat them at it. Is a 16-10 record 26 victories, or 10 defeats at the hands of kids?

[RogerWilco]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

I said children can beat them at it. Is a 16-10 record 26 victories, or 10 defeats at the hands of kids?

Midget players are not children

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by RogerWilco

Midget players are not children

Tell me their ages.

[RogerWilco]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

Tell me their ages.

15-17 year olds. Mid to late teens. some of the women on the Canadian team are 18, only a year older than the midget players