IOC not happy with Canadian women's ice hockey gold celebration

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by MJM

Anyone else find it funny that, in general, the same people who will fight to the bitter end that the Flames never do any wrong and should not face any criticism are the same people refusing to acknowledge anything wrong with what went on on the ice last night?

Interesting thought. I guess you could also same the other ways.

Anyone else find it funny that apples taste completely different than oranges?

When the Flames celebrate a championship at centre ice with Molson champaigne and fatties, then we can judge a fair comparison.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Flacker

Lower your expectations of women's hockey, or don't watch? Why do you accept that women don't compete on a level playing field with men in other events, yet expect women's hockey to look like mens.

The other sports are all entertaining/watchable. Women's hockey shouldn't be an Olympic sport until it is too and more than 2 countries can compete.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Flame On

What a load of BS.
Jiri's one of the most pro Flames supporters (not a dig) and he was one of the first on board to say this was very poor.
Just utter drivel.

No, Jiri is capable of critical thought. There are certain posters that ALWAYS post "what Ken King would say".

[MJM]

Originally Posted by Flame On

What a load of BS.
Jiri's one of the most pro Flames supporters (not a dig) and he was one of the first on board to say this was very poor.
Just utter drivel.

That why I said "In general". Do you have a reading comprehension issue? You probably could get a tutor on the off-topic forum to help you with that.

[Brad Marsh]

I think the problem is that when most of us envision an Olympic Gold Medalist, regardless of the gender, we think of an elite athlete.

With nearly every other Olympic sport in which women compete, the ones winning the medals are elite athletes in every sense of the word. Not so with hockey.

Take any sport you want and I bet the elite women in that sport would completely dominate the "average" male athlete. For example, I'm sure there are a lot of very strong skaters on this forum, perhaps even some that have participated or competed in speed-skating - do you really think many (any?) of them could beat the 37 year old Clara Hughs in a race? Not likely.

I live in the same town that Becky Scott (gold medal winning cross-country skiier) grew up in. A lot of people cross-country ski here at a relatively high level. Becky Scott could beat any one of them and it's not even close - male or female. She is elite in her sport.

Another example. I compete in triathlons and tend to do fairly well in most races - nearly always close to the top of my age group, and have even finished first overall at a race. But when I'm in a race against professional triathletes, the women totally clean my clock. The only ones to beat them are usually the pro men. They are dominant when compared to the "average" athlete, regardless of gender. And most of these professional women would still be at least one tier below athletes making the Olympic team and especially below the ones winning the Olympic medals.

It just isn't the same with hockey. You could piece a team together of beer league players who post on this forum and that team would route the women's national team.

I think that's the problem people have with this - these women just aren't at what the average hockey fan would consider to be an elite level for their sport. Of course it would be unfair for people to critically say that the Olympic Men's team could beat the Women's team, and therefore the Women's team isn't any good at hockey - but that's not what anyone is saying here at all. What people are saying is that most Jr. B teams across small town Alberta could probably beat these Gold Medal Champions. And it's actually happened. There's nothing elite about that.

It's not about being sexist (not sure why that card was even played), and it's not about taking anything away from the Gold Medal - because this team was the best in the world at what they do. And I should add that I was behind them 100% and was thrilled that they won. But at the same time I can understand why people aren't viewing this as some monumental Olympic acheivement.

And with respect to the center-ice celebration, it probably wouldn't be that big of a deal without the context Jiri alluded to earlier in the thread. When you see this team repeatedly celebrate like they just scored the overtime winning goal in the gold medal game, but in reality they just made it 8 or 9 or 10 nothing, something like this center-ice thing just rubs people the wrong way. I'm not sure that what happened here was overly outrageous, and I certainly don't think it warrants an IOC investigation, but I consider it to be classless.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

The other sports are all entertaining/watchable. Women's hockey shouldn't be an Olympic sport until it is too and more than 2 countries can compete.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I would venture to guess that since you frequent a flames board you probably watch a lot of hockey and thus can adequately critic whether the quality of the game being played is good or bad.

Do you have the same eye for bobsleigh, luge, or Skiing? Because I would suggest that someone who is a hardcore enthusiast of those sports, or who understands the intricacies might think that women stink at those sports too.

Heck, I don't really know anything about freestyle moguls, but I was able to notice that the women's turns aren't as tight, they are slower and they're jumps aren't nearly as big, someone who watches 80 freestyle events a year might be able to pick apart their runs even more than I can. But that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be considered an accomplishment to be the best female freestyler.

As far as the 2=team tournament, that's a different argument all together, while I agree with you that it makes for a boring event, if you take it out of the olympics, how are the other countries ever going to get better.

[jayswin]

These are my favorites....

[the_professsor]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

The other sports are all entertaining/watchable. Women's hockey shouldn't be an Olympic sport until it is too and more than 2 countries can compete.

i agree it's boring as fata, but olympic sports can't be justified as existing based on their entertainment value. What if everyone thought cross country skiing was boring (i'm sure a lot of people do) and the Norwegians won every year (they almost do).....still a legit sport in my mind

[Suzles]

Originally Posted by Peanut

So, I'm kind of wondering what the point of the statement is though? The more I think abot it, 15, 16 and 17 year old men/guys/kids who play at a high-level of their sport could probably beat women in most sports. Tennis, golf, skiing, luge, bobsled, speed-skating, track & field, basketball etc. etc.

Just because men are better than women at sports (in most cases due to strength and speed, as Vlad pointed out earlier) doesn't mean that women shouldn't compete in sports. Or that women's sports shouldn't be part of the Olympics.

And it doesn't really mean their accomplishments are less worthwhile when they do achieve success in their respective sports.

I've run out of thanks - so.....thanks!

[VladtheImpaler]

LOL, I believe if those were men in those pics, the word "######" would come up.

[flames_1987]

I made the mistake of actually reading some of these posts and since have just decided to skip over them.

The girls played a hell of a game, worked there ass off to get to this point as individuals beating out thousands of other women hockey players to be on this team and are the best in the world at what they do.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I would venture to guess that since you frequent a flames board you probably watch a lot of hockey and thus can adequately critic whether the quality of the game being played is good or bad.

Do you have the same eye for bobsleigh, luge, or Skiing? Because I would suggest that someone who is a hardcore enthusiast of those sports, or who understands the intricacies might think that women stink at those sports too.

Heck, I don't really know anything about freestyle moguls, but I was able to notice that the women's turns aren't as tight, they are slower and they're jumps aren't nearly as big, someone who watches 80 freestyle events a year might be able to pick apart their runs even more than I can. But that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be considered an accomplishment to be the best female freestyler.

As far as the 2=team tournament, that's a different argument all together, while I agree with you that it makes for a boring event, if you take it out of the olympics, how are the other countries ever going to get better.

Good post. I can't speak for bobsleigh for sure, but even taking sports I have more knowledge of - X-country and speed-skating - the women seem just as good as men, just slower. The sports are very competitive and eminently watchable - the Hughes final skate, Sablikova's awesome skating - very impressive stuff...

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

The other sports are all entertaining/watchable. Women's hockey shouldn't be an Olympic sport until it is too and more than 2 countries can compete.

I disagree. As long as the men compete in that sport at the Olympics there should be an equal opportunity for women to compete at it as well. It might be unwatchable but why does everything have to be about entertainment? It should be about determining who is the best.

Although they should get rid of the no hitting rule. If I was a female hockey player I'd be insulted at the insinuation that women are too fragile to handle bodychecking.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

I disagree. As long as the men compete in that sport at the Olympics there should be an equal opportunity for women to compete at it as well. It might be unwatchable but why does everything have to be about entertainment? It should be about determining who is the best.

Although they should get rid of the no hitting rule. If I was a female hockey player I'd be insulted at the insinuation that women are too fragile to handle bodychecking.

How about making them wear cages? I find it offensive that an adult female can't decide for herself whether she wants to go blind or lose teeth.

[Red Ice Player]

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4948417

I don't know if this has been posted, but the best validation for our team's delightful celebration is the self righteous condemnation of their behaiviour by one of the biggest US media tools there is....Skip Bayless. Party on girls!

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

I disagree. As long as the men compete in that sport at the Olympics there should be an equal opportunity for women to compete at it as well. It might be unwatchable but why does everything have to be about entertainment? It should be about determining who is the best.

Although they should get rid of the no hitting rule. If I was a female hockey player I'd be insulted at the insinuation that women are too fragile to handle bodychecking.

I'd be all for the inclusion of body checking in Women's hockey - except that would make the gap between Canada/US and the rest of the countries even more.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by MJM

That why I said "In general". Do you have a reading comprehension issue? You probably could get a tutor on the off-topic forum to help you with that.

You are generally wrong.
I can hide behind semantics too.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

I disagree. As long as the men compete in that sport at the Olympics there should be an equal opportunity for women to compete at it as well. It might be unwatchable but why does everything have to be about entertainment? It should be about determining who is the best.

Although they should get rid of the no hitting rule. If I was a female hockey player I'd be insulted at the insinuation that women are too fragile to handle bodychecking.

There is more reason for women's ski jumping to be included... I am not sure how many dozens of countries are on the IOC, but including a sport that only 2 of them are competitive in seems odd... And the only reason it's included is because one of them is US and the other one is also a huge winter sports political power... If the two competitors in question were Hungary and Slovakia, not even a sniff...

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

How about making them wear cages? I find it offensive that an adult female can't decide for herself whether she wants to go blind or lose teeth.

I could care less about cages because that doesn't affect the game play.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

There is more reason for women's ski jumping to be included... I am not sure how many dozens of countries are on the IOC, but including a sport that only 2 of them are competitive in seems odd... And the only reason it's included is because one of them is US and the other one is also a huge winter sports political power... If the two competitors in question were Hungary and Slovakia, not even a sniff...

Isn't the men's marathon dominated by Kenyans and Ethiopians? But it would be ludicrous to even suggest getting rid of that event!

If there's men's ski jumping at the games there should be women's as well.