Man dies after being tasered in Vancouver Airport - Page 18 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

FlamesAddiction · 11-20-2007, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

I dont think this makes anything worse...there are could be be a number of reasons why he wasnt called to help...

1. Anyone in the know didnt know he could help
2. When Dziekanski appeared on the scene it wasnt because he needed an interpreter,it was because he was damaging property and acting crazy - that is usually a situation that requires Police not some worker...

Pretty easy for the media and the bleeding hearts in hindsight to ask why this wasnt done, and why that wasnt done etc....but its not realistic..

It wouldn't hurt if security at least had access to simple foreign language phrase books (they sell them right at the gift shop), or at the very least, a phone list with people at the airport who can speak foreign language. I would have thought they would have the latter...

MelBridgeman · 11-20-2007, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It wouldn't hurt if security at least had access to simple foreign language phrase books (they sell them right at the gift shop), or at the very least, a phone list with people at the airport who can speak foreign language. I would have thought they would have the latter...

Ya but this wasnt a calm relaxed guy, who was confused..he was throwing stuff, looked kinda deranged...that is the job for the police..why would security call an interpreter in that situation? Or rumage through the local phrase book, with this guy is sweating,damaging property,screaming...in those situations you cant assume some dude is going to come around and calm him down in his own language.... the cops arent going to do that either, the man has already committed a crime, they need to arrest him and sort it out later....

metallicat · 11-20-2007, 07:18 PM

Not to mention, 1:30 AM. An interpreter is simply unreasonable IMO. It's an international airport, how many different language specialists would you have to have on staff? 50? 100? That's a huge expense.

jayswin · 11-20-2007, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

Not to mention, 1:30 AM. An interpreter is simply unreasonable IMO. It's an international airport, how many different language specialists would you have to have on staff? 50? 100? That's a huge expense.

I thought 1:30 am was when he was tasered? hadn't he been trapped there for 10 hours?

metallicat · 11-20-2007, 07:28 PM

I think you're right, but I still think it's unrealistic to have interpreters at the ready for incidents like this. Not to mention one of the biggest arguments against this police action was why they specifically didn't call for an interpreter.

peter12 · 11-20-2007, 08:31 PM

Wasn't there news the other day that there was an airport worker close by to the incident who was able to speak Polish?

It's kind of ridiculous that there wasn't at least an attempt to communicate with the guy.

moon · 11-20-2007, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flameswin

I thought 1:30 am was when he was tasered? hadn't he been trapped there for 10 hours?

How exactly was he trapped?

jayswin · 11-20-2007, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

How exactly was he trapped?

I haven't been following the story too closly, but didn't this whole incident come about because the guy couldn't get help because of the language barrier, and was therefore stuck or trapped at that specific location of the airport.

MelBridgeman · 11-20-2007, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

How exactly was he trapped?

His plane arrived in the afternoon, he went through the first line of customs after he dismbarked from the plane...there was a 7 hr gap before he went to the last line of customs..he waited for 7 hrs by the baggage area in the secure part of the airport...because his mother told him to wait there, but she didnt realize that it was in the secure area....really that is where he was failed..how the hell does noone do anything or notice that this man was waiting between 2 security checks for that long

moon · 11-20-2007, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flameswin

I haven't been following the story too closly, but didn't this whole incident come about because the guy couldn't get help because of the language barrier, and was therefore stuck or trapped at that specific location of the airport.

I guess I didn't agree with the use of the word trapped. Makes it seems as though the guy didn't have a choice or the opportunity to leave the area he was in and thus it was somehow the airports fault that he was "stuck" there.

I feel bad that the guy died but it seems that because he died many people seem to gloss over his role in this whole event. (Not saying you are)

Using trapped seems to me to be another way in which this guy looks like a victim of a situation in which he had no role in creating, which is 100% opposite of what happened.

Phaneuf3 · 11-21-2007, 10:25 AM

not video of the same story but taser stories are so much fun:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fae_1195587967&p=1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Police officer

He was jumping around, back here and over to here, so I said 'nah, I ain't playing this game.'

translation: "You will respect mah authoritah!"

ok before i get jumped on by people who claim its a-ok cause that's the way they were trained - by the absolute letter of the police manual this may be 'ok' because he didn't immediately put his hands behind his back and instead tried to explain his situation to the cop but.... was this really necessary?

MaxPower · 11-21-2007, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

not video of the same story but taser stories are so much fun:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fae_1195587967&p=1

translation: "You will respect mah authoritah!"

ok before i get jumped on by people who claim its a-ok cause that's the way they were trained - by the absolute letter of the police manual this may be 'ok' because he didn't immediately put his hands behind his back and instead tried to explain his situation to the cop but.... was this really necessary?

Wow, great video, that guy really was jumping around! That's a taserin'.

Around the 5:40 mark, the officer explains the guy got tasered because "I was placing you under arrest, you weren't following my instructions...." What was he being arrested for? Not signing his ticket? I'm pretty sure you don't have to (probably varies by state) and that you don't get arrested for it. The officer never did explain anything that well, needed a minute to get his story straight, I guess?

metallicat · 11-21-2007, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxPower

Wow, great video, that guy really was jumping around! That's a taserin'.

Around the 5:40 mark, the officer explains the guy got tasered because "I was placing you under arrest, you weren't following my instructions...." What was he being arrested for? Not signing his ticket? I'm pretty sure you don't have to (probably varies by state) and that you don't get arrested for it. The officer never did explain anything that well, needed a minute to get his story straight, I guess?

What part of "turn around and put your hands behind your back" did you not understand?

Phaneuf3 · 11-21-2007, 11:21 AM

what's even more neat about that one is if that guy stumbles and falls the wrong way due to being hit with 50,000 volts he lands in highway traffic! YAY!

Ford Prefect · 11-21-2007, 11:32 AM

I guess there's another guy in the Vancouver area (Chilliwack) who has been tasered and is in the hospital in "extremely critical" and deteriorating condition. What rotten luck for him eh? Who'd of thought a second guy might die after getting tasered within such a short period of time in the same general area given how safe tasers are and how low the incidence of associated problems are. He must have been a cocaine addict or had a heart problem or something. (end sarcasm)

Seriously, there has to be a review of taser protocols and use, regardless of what the defenders of the faith claim.

Note: Source on the Chilliiwack story is today's Calgary Herald, page A7, and CityTV News. It sounds like this guy might have deserved the taser though, if the police report is accurate. My point for posting is to question the issue of whether tasers are as safe as claimed.

MaxPower · 11-21-2007, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

What part of "turn around and put your hands behind your back" did you not understand?

Yeah, yeah this has been beaten to death. Normally I don't disagree with the guy getting in trouble, only the "instant tasering".

BUT, in this case, I disagree with the fact that "turn around and put your hands behind your back" was even said in the first place. WTF did the guy do to get that? Didn't sign his ticket and demanded an explanation. The horror....

If the police want everyone to comply and respect them etc etc etc, they shouldn't overreact like this.

metallicat · 11-21-2007, 11:40 AM

He said it no less than three times. The guy responds by walking away and asking the cop what the heck is wrong with you.

What's the point in getting into this anymore? Are you guys just going to scour the internet for tasering videos now?

Phaneuf3 · 11-21-2007, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxPower

Yeah, yeah this has been beaten to death. Normally I don't disagree with the guy getting in trouble, only the "instant tasering".

BUT, in this case, I disagree with the fact that "turn around and put your hands behind your back" was even said in the first place. WTF did the guy do to get that? Didn't sign his ticket and demanded an explanation. The horror....

If the police want everyone to comply and respect them etc etc etc, they shouldn't overreact like this.

the guy was a bit of a ######. if there was a problem with the ticket, voice your complaint to a reasonable extent and then fight it in court if necessary.

still doesn't (well.. shouldn't - cause apparently it does) give the cops the right to use this kind of force on someone that isn't posing a threat to anything other than the cop's ego.

MaxPower · 11-21-2007, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

He said it no less than three times. The guy responds by walking away and asking the cop what the heck is wrong with you.

What's the point in getting into this anymore? Are you guys just going to scour the internet for tasering videos now?

How about saying, "OK, I'm putting you under arrest for <insert actual charge here instead of silence>" and then trying more peaceful means to get the cuffs on him first?

I like discussing this. You don't have to read this thread if you don't want to.

11-21-2007, 11:52 AM

"We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."

Does that fit? Probably not. One of my favorite movies though and I've always wanted to say it.