Man dies after being tasered in Vancouver Airport

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Ayrahb

While I believe that this is a huge tragedy for the family and friends of Robert Dziekanski, something else has been bothering me about this case.

I read somewhere that Dziekanski had a criminal history in Poland. Why the hell has Citizenship and Immigration Canada issued a visa to a man with a criminal record?

Like what type of criminal history, and how recent? Under the communist regime, it didn't take much to be labelled a criminal.

[Dion]

Airport Worker Spoke Polish

Not called to help as Dziekanski waited for hours

VANCOUVER - Minutes after Polish immigrant Robert Dziekanski picked up a Vancouver airport computer and threw it at a glass wall, a Pol-ish-speaking airport worker wandered into the facility's operations centre to pick up some paperwork.

Slovakian immigrant Karol Vrba was in the room on Oct. 14 when the pair of calls came in reporting Mr. Dziekanski's erratic behaviour, but was never asked to help, even though he is conversant in Polish and Russian, the language bystanders told authorities the 40-year-old Pole was speaking.

"I feel really upset because I saw that video of what they did to him and it could have been prevented. Definitely," he said yesterday.

Mr. Vrba spoke to the National Post yesterday because, almost exactly a month after Mr. Dziekanski died, he was fired. He believes it may be because he spoke out about the fact that he could have helped. The airport told him he was "unsuitable for the job," an employment mark he said will make it nearly impossible for him to find work as a firefighter, a profession he had been training for as part of his airport duties.

But Mr. Vrba, who immigrated in 1999 and had worked at the airport since July, was not asked to help, and he said a call did not go out for anyone else who spoke Russian or Polish to help, either. Busy with his work, he did not return to the operations centre until after Mr. Dziekanski had died.

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/n...95e18d&k=41975

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Ayrahb

While I believe that this is a huge tragedy for the family and friends of Robert Dziekanski, something else has been bothering me about this case.

I read somewhere that Dziekanski had a criminal history in Poland. Why the hell has Citizenship and Immigration Canada issued a visa to a man with a criminal record?

Armed Robbery, which was from quite a while ago apparently..and i cant remeber the recent ones..which it think were for drugs/alcohol

Did anyone else that report on where he lived in Poland? Pretty sad stuff..

But i am too puzzled how he was able to get into Canada, with a criminal record, unemployed, drug/alcohol history..etc..

[Dion]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

But i am too puzzled how he was able to get into Canada, with a criminal record, unemployed, drug/alcohol history..etc..

I was wondering that myself. Maybe a pardon - dunno.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Dion

Airport Worker Spoke Polish

Not called to help as Dziekanski waited for hours

VANCOUVER - Minutes after Polish immigrant Robert Dziekanski picked up a Vancouver airport computer and threw it at a glass wall, a Pol-ish-speaking airport worker wandered into the facility's operations centre to pick up some paperwork.

Slovakian immigrant Karol Vrba was in the room on Oct. 14 when the pair of calls came in reporting Mr. Dziekanski's erratic behaviour, but was never asked to help, even though he is conversant in Polish and Russian, the language bystanders told authorities the 40-year-old Pole was speaking.

"I feel really upset because I saw that video of what they did to him and it could have been prevented. Definitely," he said yesterday.

Mr. Vrba spoke to the National Post yesterday because, almost exactly a month after Mr. Dziekanski died, he was fired. He believes it may be because he spoke out about the fact that he could have helped. The airport told him he was "unsuitable for the job," an employment mark he said will make it nearly impossible for him to find work as a firefighter, a profession he had been training for as part of his airport duties.

But Mr. Vrba, who immigrated in 1999 and had worked at the airport since July, was not asked to help, and he said a call did not go out for anyone else who spoke Russian or Polish to help, either. Busy with his work, he did not return to the operations centre until after Mr. Dziekanski had died.

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/n...95e18d&k=41975

oi, things just keep looking worse and worse

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

oi, things just keep looking worse and worse

It raises more questions and adds to the mystery of why certain things weren't done. I susect when all the investigations are done we'll get a few answers to issues like this.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Dion

Airport Worker Spoke Polish.......

I really doesn't surprise me that in an airport of that size, there would a handful of people who speak Polish.

But to say that security/police should have known all the languages that every airport employee speaks; including those who have been on the job for 3 months is asking quite a bit. I've been in my current department for 8 months and most of my co-workers probaly don't know that I speak French "conversantly"; however most know that I am from Winnipeg. So I might get called upon for winter survival tips, but not to speak French.

Had this guy been from Poland; perhaps authorities could have known. And perhaps in the future they could keep a list handy of common languages. But then again, how many languages are there in the world? Over 100? Is that even realistic?

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

oi, things just keep looking worse and worse

I dont think this makes anything worse...there are could be be a number of reasons why he wasnt called to help...

1. Anyone in the know didnt know he could help
2. When Dziekanski appeared on the scene it wasnt because he needed an interpreter,it was because he was damaging property and acting crazy - that is usually a situation that requires Police not some worker...

Pretty easy for the media and the bleeding hearts in hindsight to ask why this wasnt done, and why that wasnt done etc....but its not realistic..

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

I dont think this makes anything worse...there are could be be a number of reasons why he wasnt called to help...

1. Anyone in the know didnt know he could help
2. When Dziekanski appeared on the scene it wasnt because he needed an interpreter,it was because he was damaging property and acting crazy - that is usually a situation that requires Police not some worker...

Pretty easy for the media and the bleeding hearts in hindsight to ask why this wasnt done, and why that wasnt done etc....but its not realistic..

should have clarified. the firing looks pretty bad.
its a shame that he couldn't have helped with the translating but as you said - probably one of those situations where "who knew?!"

[Dion]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I really doesn't surprise me that in an airport of that size, there would a handful of people who speak Polish.

But to say that security/police should have known all the languages that every airport employee speaks; including those who have been on the job for 3 months is asking quite a bit. I've been in my current department for 8 months and most of my co-workers probaly don't know that I speak French "conversantly"; however most know that I am from Winnipeg. So I might get called upon for winter survival tips, but not to speak French.

Had this guy been from Poland; perhaps authorities could have known. And perhaps in the future they could keep a list handy of common languages. But then again, how many languages are there in the world? Over 100? Is that even realistic?

Some valid points there Ken. Not much that I can disagree with.

Like you say, hopefully the airport makes a list of workers who speak forgien languages.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

I dont think this makes anything worse...there are could be be a number of reasons why he wasnt called to help...

1. Anyone in the know didnt know he could help
2. When Dziekanski appeared on the scene it wasnt because he needed an interpreter,it was because he was damaging property and acting crazy - that is usually a situation that requires Police not some worker...

Pretty easy for the media and the bleeding hearts in hindsight to ask why this wasnt done, and why that wasnt done etc....but its not realistic..

The thing is, who was in the know for those 6 hours he sat in the baggage claim completely helpless? Did they do what was standard procedure with a foreign individual that could not understand English?

OR, did they see that he would be a hassle, and just left him and allowed the situation to escalate?

Perhaps a Polish interpreter was requested, but none were available at the time. What is the next course of action then? Was that action taken?

I still think it looks worse on the airport than the RCMP. The RCMP HAD to take action to subdue a deranged individual that looked like he could cause harm to other passengers (notice the aggressive stance he has towards the cameraman with the chair before putting it down at the door). The airport allowed it to happen.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

should have clarified. the firing looks pretty bad.
its a shame that he couldn't have helped with the translating but as you said - probably one of those situations where "who knew?!"

Problem is we don't know why this guy was fired. We have his word and nothing from his employer. That said if he feels he was unjustly fired then why didn't he file a grievance.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Dion

Problem is we don't know why this guy was fired. We have his word and nothing from his employer. That said if he feels he was unjustly fired then why didn't he file a grievance.

is bad vs. looks bad.

and yes, who knows if he has any action in terms of a grievance already underway.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

should have clarified. the firing looks pretty bad.
its a shame that he couldn't have helped with the translating but as you said - probably one of those situations where "who knew?!"

Ya the firing does look bad, i agree with that...but at the sametime he made his employer look bad and if it was cause he was telling everyone he could of been of some assistance, when that really wasnt the case..than i could see why his employer would be upset...firing him though, not sure.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Regorium

The thing is, who was in the know for those 6 hours he sat in the baggage claim completely helpless? Did they do what was standard procedure with a foreign individual that could not understand English?

OR, did they see that he would be a hassle, and just left him and allowed the situation to escalate?

Perhaps a Polish interpreter was requested, but none were available at the time. What is the next course of action then? Was that action taken?

I still think it looks worse on the airport than the RCMP. The RCMP HAD to take action to subdue a deranged individual that looked like he could cause harm to other passengers (notice the aggressive stance he has towards the cameraman with the chair before putting it down at the door). The airport allowed it to happen.

I agree...it def looks worse on YVR and Canada Customs...

[Dion]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

I dont think this makes anything worse...there are could be be a number of reasons why he wasnt called to help...

1. Anyone in the know didnt know he could help
2. When Dziekanski appeared on the scene it wasnt because he needed an interpreter,it was because he was damaging property and acting crazy - that is usually a situation that requires Police not some worker...

Pretty easy for the media and the bleeding hearts in hindsight to ask why this wasnt done, and why that wasnt done etc....but its not realistic..

As to your second point, he wasn't threatening anyone as he was in a secure area. It's my opinion that tasering him didn't have to be the first option. Bring someone in to talk and try to calm this guy down.

Tasers IMO have become an easy way out of dealing with a tough situation. While tasers don't directly cause people to die, there seems to be added factors that help lead to a persons death - one they're investigating in reagrds to this situation.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Regorium

I still think it looks worse on the airport than the RCMP. The RCMP HAD to take action to subdue a deranged individual that looked like he could cause harm to other passengers (notice the aggressive stance he has towards the cameraman with the chair before putting it down at the door). The airport allowed it to happen.

From all the stuff i've read so far I tend to agree with you. Both imiigration and the airport could very easily dealth with this situation and prevented the RCMP form getting involved.

How can a man loiter in a secure area for so long without being noticed. Surely immigration knew this guy was coming.

Airport officals said they couldn't understand why their staff didn't help the mans mother.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Dion

As to your second point, he wasn't threatening anyone as he was in a secure area. It's my opinion that tasering him didn't have to be the first option. Bring someone in to talk and try to calm this guy down.

Tasers IMO have become an easy way out of dealing with a tough situation. While tasers don't directly cause people to die, there seems to be added factors that help lead to a persons death - one they're investigating in reagrds to this situation.

Yes that is true in hindsight..But even the guy who filmed the video stated that he thought at the time the police did the right thing, it was only after he viewed his video that he changed his mind...that should tell all of us something, it doent matter what anyone thinks now...the RCMP and the guy filming judge the situation from being there and both agreed that what happened was the right thing to do at the time...

The situation was not under control, it is the job of the RCMP to get the situation under control, it is ok to question their methods, that is fine...but i dont agree that watching him and waiting to find a interepreter at what 2 am when this happened...nope get the man under control first..he tried to smash that computer into the glass..he was a threat on many levels..in an airport for that matter...

[Dion]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Yes that is true in hindsight..But even the guy who filmed the video stated that he thought at the time the police did the right thing, it was only after he viewed his video that he changed his mind...that should tell all of us something, it doent matter what anyone thinks now...the RCMP and the guy filming judge the situation from being there and both agreed that what happened was the right thing to do at the time...

Chances are I might change my opinion if I was in his situation. Being able to watch things over again can sometimes give you a new perspective of things. See things that you might have missed.

The situation was not under control, it is the job of the RCMP to get the situation under control, it is ok to question their methods, that is fine...but i dont agree that watching him and waiting to find a interepreter at what 2 am when this happened...nope get the man under control first..he tried to smash that computer into the glass..he was a threat on many levels..in an airport for that matter...

At that time i will agree he was out of control. Still it took the RCMP 10 mintes to arrive on the scene - plenty of time to call for an interpreter (if that's what they did). Considering it's post 9/11, the response time looks bad.

If no one was dying while being tasered I'd have no problems with the RCMP rushing in and using the taser. You may disagree, i just think we need to do more research on how we use tasers and how we can prevent those added factors from happening. For example i read somehwere that someone with the police in the state of Washington said the RCMP should have had that man sitting up so he could breath. Putting the force of your knee on someones back and neck might make it difficult for someone to breath - especially if your on your stomach like this man was.

[Dion]

Govt to launch it's own independant investigation.

B.C. Attorney General Wally Oppal said the government was forced to launch its inquiry because of a "vacuum of information" from authorities.

"I think it's safe to say that we were waiting for some kind of appropriate answer from the authorities and nothing was forthcoming at all," Oppal said on Monday.

"We thought someone might step up and offer an explanation about what happened. You think of the repercussions here and the public deserves answers," he said.

Oppal didn't single out any one agency.

A review of the appropriate use and policies employed by police in British Columbia with respect to the Taser, and recommend necessary changes.

A full review of the incident involving Dziekanski, including (but not limited to) the actions of the RCMP, Canadian Border Services and immigration processes and Vancouver airport.

Recommendations on how procedures can be improved with respect to the handling of foreign passengers coming into British Columbia through the Vancouver airport.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-col...erinquiry.html