[PGT] Wild 4, Flames 2

[Flamenspiel]

Smith seems to be either really good or really bad, Saturday was one of his worst, he was basically at fault for all 4 goals. Personally i have never seen anything like that by an NHL goalie.

Rittich seems to be more even keeled and tends to let up when the pressure is off(with the exception of the Sharks game). His GOA is higher than it should be because he lets a lot of goals when the Flames have a two or three goal lead.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

No it isn’t.

It’s nothing new.

See: Patrick Roy. As one example.

And how did that end

[Kasi]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

I don't get your perspective. Sure, their odds may improve when they are more experienced. But it just doesn't necessarily work that way - as a progression, at the time the team seems best poised to win. Leave that for hindsight. Why do anything but take our best shot at winning the Cup this year?

Because for most people the best shot meant throwing away assets and/or ruining our cap situation next year. Flames don’t exactly have a lot of prospects or young players who can contribute. Trading them away will hurt the 3rd D and 4th line depth we’ve built. And for better or worse the Neal contract exists and it limits what the team can do.

In regards to goaltending while they were goalies out there who are better than Smith the difference wasn’t that big. Their certainly wasn’t any goalie out there better than Rittich available. I wonder if they talked to LA about Campbell but other than him all the goalies on non contenders are crap or unavailable. So I’m not surprised no move were made for goalies and nothing much happened in general. That is what Treliving said, he’d only make deals if it was a long term benefit to the team and not rentals. Other teams can throw away prospects because they have more young depth than we can.

[BigBrodieFan]

Here I thought the Flames lost because I fell asleep before the third last night.. (it was the pain pills..)

We just had SEVEN wins in a row. We lost ONE game of EIGHT. Smith was in God mode for a couple of those games we won and everyone loved him.

When the Flames are taking turns hoisting The Cup this year, all will be forgiven.

No team can function without support of their fans. We have so much to be thankful and positive for. So, let's enjoy it- it's been way too long.

[wired]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

There are 50 NHL goalies that have qualified to be in the GAA stat. Rittich is 12th overall with 2.56 and Smith is 29th with 2.92. As a tandem, they are 2.80. That 2.80 looks a lot closer to 2.92 than it does to 2.56. It's almost like Smith's play is bringing Rittich's number down when they are teamed up. Smith has a worse GAA than Markstrom, Koskinen, Domingue, etc. Rittich is behind guys like Lehner, Rinne, and Price. Somehow everyone besides Lehner and Campbell are behind McElhinney, but that's a story for another day.



Saying that Smith can't be that bad because they are 8th together is disingenuous. That's like saying Brent Gretzky must have been pretty good, as between him and Wayne they have the most points between two siblings in the NHL. They have 827 points more than the Sedins, and since the Sedins are very good, Brent must also be good.


Mike Smith has not been good this year. He has had a few games where he has been good, but his performance over the year has been subpar. He is costing the Flames wins. On the other hand Rittich has played very well. He has had some poor games, but he is winning them games that other goalies can't. Smith thinks he handles the puck like Gaudreau. He has cost his team multiple goals this year because of his poor decision making and poor puck handling. For every game like the first NYI game, he has many more like last night where he could just leave the puck and try and stop when it's directed at him. He's already having a hard enough time with that one.


Rittich is 22-5-5 with a .913 SV% and 2.56 GAA
Smith is 19-12-2 with a .895 SV% and 2.92 GAA


That's not a great tandem. That's a great goalie with a subpar backup.

Your argument is irrelevant if they win, and they just won 7 out of 8 games. Give the negative nelly crap a rest.
Every player has an off night, or stretch..... even the best players in any sport.
The team is doing good, and most members on this forum just cry as if they were the freaking Oilers.

[Jore]

Originally Posted by wired

Your argument is irrelevant if they win, and they just won 7 out of 8 games. Give the negative nelly crap a rest.
Every player has an off night, or stretch..... even the best players in any sport.
The team is doing good, and most members on this forum just cry as if they were the freaking Oilers.

When your performances have been bottom 3 the whole season, that is somewhat more than an off night, or stretch. When you're winning at a significantly lower rate than the other goalie on your team, and you lose the game singlehandedly on the biggest night of the year, squigg's argument is not irrelevant.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by AC

As frustrating as Smith can be, I really hate when the home team jeers the home goalie in any situation.

There's no positive to come from it, and when dealing with a goalie that has clear issues with confidence... it can only hurt.

While I agree for the most part when it comes to a soft goal. But last nights debacle is inexcusable. He was battling with an opposing forward BEHIND the net for over 6 full seconds. Hanifin was already there, what is the thought process of how NOT going back to the net is the better choice? I can overlook the odd give away from a bad pass when the goalies play the puck (ie Rittich in the San Jose game, Smith vs Anaheim) but leaving the net to muck it up with an opposing forward behind the net was just plain asinine.

[browna]

Odd crowd last night too. Fans in the Dome are usually pretty with it, but last night, likely given the ceremony and anticipation and the prices paid for tickets, and whatever that entitlement or level of hockey knowledge brings, it seemed a bit “dumber” than usual.

More then a few plays or whistles or Flames non calls thst got boos out of ignorance or not really paying attention, so it really didn’t suprise me that Smith got jeered.

I’ll say this, he helps his team with his puck movements 10x more than the mistakes or bobbles he makes. The mistakes get amplified, and his subtle or bold or just normal movements of the puck to assist the Flames get out of the zone, are totally taken for granted.

The lack of extra wear and tear on defenders, who don’t have to take the hit in the corner or along the side wall when they have to chase down dump ins with their back to the forecheckers, never mind the risk of them losing the puck, isn’t calculated in some of the analysis. The fact that the forwards too, can get that extra time to get into position or find the space in the neutral zone for the breakout pass from the defenders who get it from Smith, and not have to be coming so far back into their zone, to be able to cover the defenseman potentially coughing up the puck, it allows faster transition into the opponent zone.

These things then have the other team playing defense and worrying about defending breakout more then worrying about forechecking, and over the course of shift after shift and period after period, the back off even further and have to change their strategy.

His puck movement and skill is a significant part of the Flames defensive scheme, practiced daily, and it’s worked to the Flames benefit in getting up the ice with speed and effectiveness a lot more times than it’s caused situations against us like last night. The more efficient and quicker zone entires and chances on the rush are a big reason for this team being in the position where they are.

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ Last night doesn’t have to do with whether he should play the puck in general yes/no.

It does have to do with, given the situation, what he decides to do. He lost the puck, it’s now a battle. Get back in net. Simple.

As for helping his team 10x more, well, he has lost the puck behind the net and been scored on, his fault, twice in his last 3 games. (He admits mistakes were made but doesn’t point the finger at the guy in the mirror)

Of course mistakes are magnified, the result is often goals against. Preventing goals is the goalie’s main job, not causing them.

And if his puck playing is the reason this team is in the position they are, how do you reconcile that with the other goalie’s much better record?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

While I agree for the most part when it comes to a soft goal. But last nights debacle is inexcusable. He was battling with an opposing forward BEHIND the net for over 6 full seconds. Hanifin was already there, what is the thought process of how NOT going back to the net is the better choice? I can overlook the odd give away from a bad pass when the goalies play the puck (ie Rittich in the San Jose game, Smith vs Anaheim) but leaving the net to muck it up with an opposing forward behind the net was just plain asinine.

That is not exactly what happened. Smith was the first to arrive behind the net, then the opposing player, then Hanifin. I didn’t see Smith do anything differently until after Hanifin arrived—I think that was the time to get back into the net, but I am not sure it was as simple to do so in the moment as it may have appeared. The moment of Hanifin’s arrival created an impediment for Smith. He might have been able to get around him, but there was not an especially clear path to do so.

The whole situation was unfortunate.


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[Textcritic]

Was there no practice or skate today?


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[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Was worth exploring, so I checked it out

Since Jan 1, in situations where the score of the game is tied or within 1 goal, here are their save percentages / GAA / TOI:

Rittich - 0.923 / 2.18 / 632:36
Smith - 0.897 / 3.05 / 571:25

Originally Posted by Jore

thank u. enough with the false equivalency through arbitrary cut off dates and different caliber of competition

And let's look at the caliber of competition...

Since Jan 1, the GPG average of the teams that each goalie faced (weighted per 60), gives us an expected GAA, based on quality of competition, of:

Rittich: 3.06 (actual GAA 2.84)
Smith.: 2.90 (actual GAA 2.81)

So both goalies had a GAA lower than the average of what their competition was expected to generate (which is to be expected, because the Flames are better than average defensively). However, we can see that Rittich's was significantly better (0.22 better vs 0.09)

[Fan in Exile]

No, my perspective on it is simply that our best chance to go to a run and win the Cup this season is with Rittich. Our best shot at learning from this season and using that experience to win a Cup in the future is also playing Rittich. If he clearly can't carry the load, we target at number one in the offseason. I see no scenario where Smith as the starter this season or this playoffs is a good idea. I see no scenario where I would want to bring him back next season.

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by browna

Odd crowd last night too. Fans in the Dome are usually pretty with it, but last night, likely given the ceremony and anticipation and the prices paid for tickets, and whatever that entitlement or level of hockey knowledge brings, it seemed a bit “dumber” than usual.

More likely the free beer and 2.5 hours of additional drinking time than entitlement.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

That is not exactly what happened. Smith was the first to arrive behind the net, then the opposing player, then Hanifin. I didn’t see Smith do anything differently until after Hanifin arrived—I think that was the time to get back into the net, but I am not sure it was as simple to do so in the moment as it may have appeared. The moment of Hanifin’s arrival created an impediment for Smith. He might have been able to get around him, but there was not an especially clear path to do so.

The whole situation was unfortunate.


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Lol no it was not unfortunate, it was a ridiculously dumb mistake solely by Smith and painting it as anything else is absolutely hilarious. Christ you people have Stockholm syndrome

[oldschoolcalgary]

SIAP



not to belabor the point, but i am not sure how smith was impeded... he hesitated for whatever reason after Hanifin got back to the puck... even the color guy is confused

Hrudey even said the same thing and he's generally a guy that defends goalies.

but what is done is done. It was a mistake and he owned up to it.

onward

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by browna

Odd crowd last night too. Fans in the Dome are usually pretty with it, but last night, likely given the ceremony and anticipation and the prices paid for tickets, and whatever that entitlement or level of hockey knowledge brings, it seemed a bit “dumber” than usual.

More then a few plays or whistles or Flames non calls thst got boos out of ignorance or not really paying attention, so it really didn’t suprise me that Smith got jeered.

I’ll say this, he helps his team with his puck movements 10x more than the mistakes or bobbles he makes. The mistakes get amplified, and his subtle or bold or just normal movements of the puck to assist the Flames get out of the zone, are totally taken for granted.

The lack of extra wear and tear on defenders, who don’t have to take the hit in the corner or along the side wall when they have to chase down dump ins with their back to the forecheckers, never mind the risk of them losing the puck, isn’t calculated in some of the analysis. The fact that the forwards too, can get that extra time to get into position or find the space in the neutral zone for the breakout pass from the defenders who get it from Smith, and not have to be coming so far back into their zone, to be able to cover the defenseman potentially coughing up the puck, it allows faster transition into the opponent zone.

These things then have the other team playing defense and worrying about defending breakout more then worrying about forechecking, and over the course of shift after shift and period after period, the back off even further and have to change their strategy.

His puck movement and skill is a significant part of the Flames defensive scheme, practiced daily, and it’s worked to the Flames benefit in getting up the ice with speed and effectiveness a lot more times than it’s caused situations against us like last night. The more efficient and quicker zone entires and chances on the rush are a big reason for this team being in the position where they are.

I don't agree with booing the home team. Ever. But using terms like dumb or ignorant when talking about fellow Flames fans is about as bad.

You are overstating Smith's value IMO, and I can't agree his puck handling is 10x more impactful than his corresponding mistakes. The team still wins more often with Rittich. I think they'd win more often with most NHL goalies.

Anyway, if you're right I'm sure he will have no problem getting a new deal after this year. It makes you wonder why the Flames haven't re-upped him already.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

Lol no it was not unfortunate, it was a ridiculously dumb mistake solely by Smith and painting it as anything else is absolutely hilarious. Christ you people have Stockholm syndrome

It was a dumb mistake to try and free up Hanifin and tie up the forechecker. The only quibble I have is where people say he was free to get back in after he made that decision. Once he decided to engage like that, he got stuck and couldn't get back.

I think maybe he and Hanifin also didn't communicate right - I think he was expecting Hanifin to move away from the net, in whihc case he chips the puck past the forechecker. Instead, Hanifin goes for the puck as well, and the schmozzle happens.

Funny, even after it started I didn't think it was going to end that way. I thought the puck would just get freed the other way and go to the other defender (Hamonic?).

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

I don't get your perspective. Sure, their odds may improve when they are more experienced. But it just doesn't necessarily work that way - as a progression, at the time the team seems best poised to win. Leave that for hindsight. Why do anything but take our best shot at winning the Cup this year?

Because the odds of winning do get better, and could get decidedly worse if a mistake is made with the roster now. You change a three-four year window into a one year window if you make a bad rental deal.