[Rumour] Friedman: Flames have inquired about Pittsburgh Goalie Matt Murray

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Calgary is one of very few teams that could legitimately offer him a starter's position. For a goalie that's been flip flopping around and warming the bench often, that has to be a very attractive option. Plus, there's a bit of connection through Burke. He gets to stay in Canada in a very respectable hockey market and organization. The assigned backup in Ortio is still easing his way into the NHL, but strong enough to push him to be his best.

As for whether he can deliver or not, just look at his recent game-by-game performance - especially after being given a solid run of games by San Jose. 3 shutouts in 8 games.

SN: A look at how James Reimer has played since trade to Sharks

I think Reimer is an excellent goalie for stretches. I just see him as a goalie that hits patches of inconsistency too often. I wouldn't mind signing him as a UFA, but I really don't think he is going to be that much of an upgrade over what Ramo has been giving the Flames (well, ignoring the start of this season anyways).

Reimer definitely does look good in stretches. Who knows? Maybe he gets it together and becomes a consistent goalie away from the Toronto media circus?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by New Era

Whatever Treliving decides to do on the goaltending situation will likely define his tenure with the Flames. Blowing this past season by bringing in the three headed goaltending monster hurt. A repeat of not addressing the goaltending issue would not look good on him. I think he's done a lot more good than bad, but could another disappointing year as a result of a bad goaltending decision could cause a revolt at the box office?

Man, this sentiment being repeated over and over is mind boggling.

Treliving brought back the same group of goalies that played well enough for this team to get 97 points and make it to round 2 of the playoffs the season before. How is it HIS fault that they all shat the bed at the same time?

Answer -> It's not

...and if having three goalies on the roster is enough to shake all of them into playing that poorly, well that's on them too, not Treliving.

[Yoho]

If we could buy time with Reimer and Ortio on reasonable term and no assets given up it would be pretty attractive. There nothing saying that if we gave up assets for MAF his concussions could come right back and he goes on IR.

[Strange Brew]

Yeah I don't like blaming the GM when the players crap the bed. I think BT knew he didn't have a great goalie situation but no excuse for how they played. The3 goalie situation should not be an excuse for how horrible they played.

Seems BT was in on Jones but didn't like the price. Should he have gone after Jones instead of Hamilton? Maybe but I think goalies like Jones come around more often than d prospects like Hamilton.

[JJ1532]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Man, this sentiment being repeated over and over is mind boggling.

Treliving brought back the same group of goalies that played well enough for this team to get 97 points and make it to round 2 of the playoffs the season before. How is it HIS fault that they all shat the bed at the same time?

Answer -> It's not

...and if having three goalies on the roster is enough to shake all of them into playing that poorly, well that's on them too, not Treliving.

Ok, fair point. But why did they take 3 goalies into the season in the first place? Never should have happened, even if their drop off in form is nothing to do with him. Just don't get the logic of having 3 goalies on the roster from day 1. What was the best case scenario? One gets hot and takes the starter spot, leaving 2 guys rotting on the sidelines? Run a tandem like last season, leaving 1 rotting on the sidelines?

Should have waived the worst performing of the 3 after pre-season and rolled with the 2 that earned their spots. Or, you can go back further than that and ask, with Ortio on a 1 way deal, why he even brought back Ramo in the first place. I get your point that he helped get us into the play offs, but we probably should have gone with Hiller and Ortio and had they crapped the bed, we would have had space to trade for a goalie who might have helped us improve.

How much did he look for a goalie on the trade market once the season started? Ok, he looked into Murray, but was he in on Reimer given the cost? I hope so.

He shouldn't have brought back Ramo given Ortios situation, he should have waived one of them before the season started and he should have waived Hiller months ago. I also wonder who he looked at in the trade market and wether he tried to solve this issue, or did he sit on his hands and hoped things would improve on their own? He can take his fair share of blame for the goaltending mess this season.

[Roof-Daddy]

If he hadn't brought Ramo back, the Flames would still likely be out of the playoffs and guess what everybody would be saying then?

They'd be saying "why didn't Treliving bring back Ramo? He helped us to the playoffs last season."

Everybody wants to lay blame when things aren't going right, I get it, I'm that way too. It's only natural. However the blame for our crappy goaltending this season lies 100% on the three goalies all crapping the bed to start the season, and nobody else IMO.

[FlamesNation23]

imo there is no way Treliving waits till free agency to address the goalie problem. There arent very many available and if the one you want goes to another team, you end up with the same problem as we had this year and that would pretty much cost him his job. I would bet some combination of picks and players will be traded at the draft for a goaltender. With the expansion draft coming up there should be quite a few options for a solution to the goaltending problem

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by FlamesNation23

imo there is no way Treliving waits till free agency to address the goalie problem. There arent very many available and if the one you want goes to another team, you end up with the same problem as we had this year and that would pretty much cost him his job. I would bet some combination of picks and players will be traded at the draft for a goaltender. With the expansion draft coming up there should be quite a few options for a solution to the goaltending problem

and trading significant assets for a goalie would then create an issue for us. Gillies will need to be protected during the expansion draft.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Man, this sentiment being repeated over and over is mind boggling.

Treliving brought back the same group of goalies that played well enough for this team to get 97 points and make it to round 2 of the playoffs the season before. How is it HIS fault that they all shat the bed at the same time?

Answer -> It's not

...and if having three goalies on the roster is enough to shake all of them into playing that poorly, well that's on them too, not Treliving.

Problem being is it didn't take a rocket surgeon to see that Hiller was complete crap toward the end of last year. There was no way he should have brought him back. He should have jettisoned him in the off season or dispatched him to the minors at the start of the season. Treliving is responsible for the contracts on the team, so overloading a given position is on him. I'm glad that two of the clowns involved in our goaltending mess are off the books. We'll see how he approaches the issue this time around. I have a feeling he'll knock it out of the park.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by FlamesNation23

imo there is no way Treliving waits till free agency to address the goalie problem.

Except is he can't get a deal done. Wanting something doesn't mean you will get it.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by JJ1532

Ok, fair point. But why did they take 3 goalies into the season in the first place?

Why?
Because coming into this season Ortio had fifteen games of NHL experience. Despite this, Ortio was a top goalie prospect who very well could have been claimed once waived by a team looking to poach him. And Treliving likes Ortio. He knows there's potential for a starter there in this young player, who was 24 to open the season and 24 to close it. But potential is only that.

Why?
Because Hiller was a temporary fix signed while Ramo was somewhat unproven. As Ramo repeated his 2013-14 season in 2014-15 to prove he was a steady prescence in the backend, getting rid of Hiller's contract became difficult. And it wasn't even a bad contract as there was very little term attached.

Why?
Because JF Berube as well as Kevin Poulin, an older, and considered-to-be worse goalie prospect than Joni Ortio. were two young 3rd stringers claimed off of the waiver wire. Treliving did not want to lose Ortio on waivers.

Why?
Because Flames ownership is probably not all too enamoured with 4.5M or 3.7M players spending time in the minor leagues.

What was the best case scenario?

Best case scenarios include:

1) Ortio blows Hartley away in training camp and is the 1A while Ramo is the #1B for when the 24 year old goes through an inevitible rough patch. Hiller also plays fine, and a team akin to last season's Wild is desperate for a starter, and we ship Jonas Hiller off for something like a 2nd-4th round draft pick and profit.

2) Ramo/Hiller play fine, and Ortio gets sent down at a time of the season where claiming a goalie is less likely. Ortio then splits the net with Gillies and has a good year, like plenty of other quality NHL goalies have done in their first year of waiver eligibility. Ramo establishes himself as the clear #1 and Hiller the 1B, so that in 2017-18 Ortio can be the backup pushing him and we walk away from Hiller gracefully.

Or, you can go back further than that and ask, with Ortio on a 1 way deal, why he even brought back Ramo in the first place.

Maybe Ramo's work ethic was something they wanted Ortio, Gillies etc to learn from, as Gio's work ethic is something they show to all the skaters. You know, that whole culture building thing he harps on about?

How much did he look for a goalie on the trade market once the season started?

Why, you wanted a 'four goalie monster'?

Originally Posted by New Era

Problem being is it didn't take a rocket surgeon to see that Hiller was complete crap toward the end of last year.

Jonas Hiller had a .930 save percentage in his final 18 games, between playoffs and regular season. "complete crap".

[FlamesNation23]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

and trading significant assets for a goalie would then create an issue for us. Gillies will need to be protected during the expansion draft.

I'm not advocating trading something significant, but if we were able to get a solid starting goaltender with two second round picks or a 2nd rounder and a B prospect, I think it would be worth it. I think Gilles could be the future, but there is nothing wrong with giving him a few more years of development in the AHL. Obviously if such a trade dosent work out then Reimer is not a bad 2nd option.

Also I was under the impression we don't need to protect Gilles in the expansion draft since he hasn't played 11 professional games this year therefore it dosent count. Has something changed to make that not valid?

[Calgary4LIfe]

By the end of the playoffs, it was clear that Ramo was the more favored goalie (and he proved Treliving right).

There were rumors that SJ wanted Hiller. Suddenly Jones entered the equation in SJ. Does Treliving run with a Hiller (who fell out of favor somewhat) and Ortio (who was a fairly raw and inexperienced prospect) into the season?

We have to remember that Treliving was also in on a few goalie deals - Talbot particularly. He tried to get a deal done. Didn't happen.

Hiller had some value at the start of the season - Treliving gambled that at least Buffalo would have traded for him when their starter that they just traded for - Lehner - went down. I believe even Friedman reported that Buffalo would have likely picked up whatever goalie Calgary ended up waving. It was a game of chicken. Turned out that Buffalo's goalie played well enough, Calgary's shat the bed, and that was it.

I don't think there is an issue having a 3-headed monster. If not a single goalie can withstand the pressure and take a step forward ahead of the other two, then that is on them. Treliving tried to upgrade, but failed. He tried to trade and get assets for at least Hiller (if not Ramo as well earlier in the season) but there were no takers.

It is the same goalie tandem that gave the Flames last season enough to reach the playoffs. I just don't see why people are pointing at Treliving and saying he screwed up. I think he was proven right - Ramo was indeed the better goalie. Not his fault SJ pulled out of rumored trade and decided to go for Jones instead. The team is still a rebuilding squad - playoffs aside - and he tried to recoup some assets. I think it was the smart move, but sometimes things just don't work out.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Jonas Hiller had a .930 save percentage in his final 18 games, between playoffs and regular season. "complete crap".

Yay! Stats! Yet the eyeball test said other things. Hiller scared the every loving crap out of every Flames fan the moment the puck crossed into the Flames zone. Hiller was looking every bit the shooter tutor be became this season. I'm sorry you didn't see it that way, but it was extremely evident where Hiller was headed. Since Treliving was doing his best to move Hiller I have a feeling he saw things the same way. I think he knew it was only a matter of time before the book was made on Hiller and his habits were exposed. Sadly it happened on, and to, the Flames and not someone else.

I really hate it when people rely so heavily on stats. This is the trap Oilers fans fall into all the time. Nail Yakupov isn't complete dog dookie in a hockey jersey, look at what he did in so-and-so month! Yeah, he scored some points, but his play was still compete garbage. He still made poor reads, still couldn't check hit coat, and was still lost on the ice for most of his shift. But... but... stats!!! But... but... watch the freaking games and tell me you can't see the how the guy really looks! I mean, it's like the whole "bring back Iginla" argument where the fanboys point to his stats and say, "See! Iggy still has it!" All you have to do is watch one Colorado hockey game to recognize the stats are flawed and so is the player. The stats say one thing but the eye balls say something completely different. For Hiller it was very obvious after the all star game last year where he was headed. When a guy can't catch a puck or control a rebound anymore it is a pretty big sign where that goaltender is headed.

[Bingo]

I think blaming Treliving is a wasted exercise. He attempted to maximize asset value by having a deal in place for Hiller, signing Ramo and then moving Hiller. That deal fell through and he got stuck.

Happens. Good learning lesson for a young GM.

I also think he would have had one of Jones or Talbot if the Hamilton deal didn't fall into his lap.

Bottom line for me is you can't waste years in an organization. The Flames aren't cup contenders but they are a good young team, better than their record shows. You can't waste a year of great young players because of an obvious issue in the lineup, you have to fix it.

The Flames with a goaltender next year are very much in the mix for a playoff spot, might even be comfortably. I'm sure they'll get it sorted out.

If the expansion draft is announced there should be about 8 teams on the clock with a year to maximize value on moving a goaltender. There are not many teams looking to add. The Flames should talk to all 8 and find that good fit of goalie skill and acquisition cost and get it done.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by New Era

Yay! Stats! Yet the eyeball test said other things. Hiller scared the every loving crap out of every Flames fan the moment the puck crossed into the Flames zone. Hiller was looking every bit the shooter tutor be became this season. I'm sorry you didn't see it that way, but it was extremely evident where Hiller was headed. Since Treliving was doing his best to move Hiller I have a feeling he saw things the same way. I think he knew it was only a matter of time before the book was made on Hiller and his habits were exposed. Sadly it happened on, and to, the Flames and not someone else.

I really hate it when people rely so heavily on stats. This is the trap Oilers fans fall into all the time. Nail Yakupov isn't complete dog dookie in a hockey jersey, look at what he did in so-and-so month! Yeah, he scored some points, but his play was still compete garbage. He still made poor reads, still couldn't check hit coat, and was still lost on the ice for most of his shift. But... but... stats!!! But... but... watch the freaking games and tell me you can't see the how the guy really looks! I mean, it's like the whole "bring back Iginla" argument where the fanboys point to his stats and say, "See! Iggy still has it!" All you have to do is watch one Colorado hockey game to recognize the stats are flawed and so is the player. The stats say one thing but the eye balls say something completely different. For Hiller it was very obvious after the all star game last year where he was headed. When a guy can't catch a puck or control a rebound anymore it is a pretty big sign where that goaltender is headed.

Spin it however you want, Jonas Hiller was instrumental in helping last year's team make the playoffs, more than Ramo that's for sure. This year was a travesty but you can't take away last year's contribution. You are right about signs appearing, especially in the playoffs, but I'll let it go because without his early/mid season form, the Flames would be 7 years out of the playoffs right now. He got older and lost his game, it happens to everyone eventually. Doesn't change the fact that last year's Hiller put in, overall, one of the best goaltender seasons in Flames history, outside of Vernon and Kiprusoff.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Spin it however you want, Jonas Hiller was instrumental in helping last year's team make the playoffs, more than Ramo that's for sure. This year was a travesty but you can't take away last year's contribution. You are right about signs appearing, especially in the playoffs, but I'll let it go because without his early/mid season form, the Flames would be 7 years out of the playoffs right now. He got older and lost his game, it happens to everyone eventually. Doesn't change the fact that last year's Hiller put in, overall, one of the best goaltender seasons in Flames history, outside of Vernon and Kiprusoff.

Not a great bar to set since outside of Vernon and Kipper is a lot of mediocrity. So basically he was the king of mediocre goalie we've had. So glad I'll never have to see him suit up for the Flames ever again.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Not a great bar to set since outside of Vernon and Kipper is a lot of mediocrity. So basically he was the king of mediocre goalie we've had. So glad I'll never have to see him suit up for the Flames ever again.

He wasn't mediocre last year. I don't know, as a Flames fan, I'm pretty thankful for the playoffs last year. Without Hiller, we'd be out 7 straight years.

[Johnny Rotten]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think blaming Treliving is a wasted exercise. He attempted to maximize asset value by having a deal in place for Hiller, signing Ramo and then moving Hiller. That deal fell through and he got stuck.

Happens. Good learning lesson for a young GM.

I also think he would have had one of Jones or Talbot if the Hamilton deal didn't fall into his lap.

Bottom line for me is you can't waste years in an organization. The Flames aren't cup contenders but they are a good young team, better than their record shows. You can't waste a year of great young players because of an obvious issue in the lineup, you have to fix it.

The Flames with a goaltender next year are very much in the mix for a playoff spot, might even be comfortably. I'm sure they'll get it sorted out.

If the expansion draft is announced there should be about 8 teams on the clock with a year to maximize value on moving a goaltender. There are not many teams looking to add. The Flames should talk to all 8 and find that good fit of goalie skill and acquisition cost and get it done.

I agree with what you write, but I would not be afraid to after a UFA goalie like Reimer or Raanta. I prefer not to give up any assets, if possible. Just get the right guy.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Johnny Rotten

I agree with what you write, but I would not be afraid to after a UFA goalie like Reimer or Raanta. I prefer not to give up any assets, if possible. Just get the right guy.

Not sure those are the right guys. I understand about not giving up assets, but cap space is an asset too. I really worry about giving term to a goalie like Reimer.