[PGT] Columbus 5 Flames 1

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

So all captains are good captains?

I would say that the winner of the inaugural Messier leadership award and alternate captain on the highest profile Team Canada team since 1972 are strong indicators that Iginla is a good captain

[oldschoolcalgary]

honestly, if Iggy wants to stay and be part of a rebuild, I think fans would begrudgingly accept that... I am not going to comment on deserves or not deserves...

I would love to see Iggy raising a Cup, just like I was happy to see Ference raise the Cup with Boston and Darryl raising the Cup in LA.

However, for the franchise moving forward, I think we need to get assets for Iggy...jmho, so I would rather see us trade him in order for the franchise to move forward.

[PantherExtreme]

I really have to walk you through it? No one thought iggy was a bad captain in 04 and no one would think he were a bad captain if he was captain of the hawks. Id like to see him shipped out and the team make up definitely needs a change but Jarome did well as captain. The effect of a captain is often overstated.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by dino7c

They have no centers, its not Iginla's fault they built a team and forgot about one position

Quoted for truth

Most accurate post of the month when it comes to the Iginla situation.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by dino7c

They have no centers, its not Iginla's fault they built a team and forgot about one position

True, but at the same time there are strong indications that Iginla influenced management to bring in players that he likes to play with. Not blaming Iggy at all though, management didn't have to listen.

But isn't it obvious by now that the Calgary Flames are using Iginla as a marketing asset first and foremost, with the on ice product as an afterthought? They talk of him being a big part of the new arena and all that, the face of the franchise, THE Calgary Flame. This is completely backwards to me on how you approach running a hockey club. You don't create a legend from the marketing department, you build a Cup winning team first, the rest writes itself.

[dino7c]

they whole captain thing is over rated, good teams win. If you have a bad team you can't just will them to win because you have a good captain

[Mr.Coffee]

That gets stated a lot around here but the reality is that nobody really knows. From what I can tell, the effect of the leadership group (captain included but also alternate guys like Bouwmeester, Tanguay, Cammalleri) and the imprint on the culture in the locker room looks to be actually kind of large and looming. It starts to permeate the younger players too which is problematic.

"If so and so doesn't bust his ass, why do I need to?" kinda thing.

edit: it's also possible that Iginla was a great captain for that team, not for this one, or that his leadership skills declined as things changed and time went on... so yeah there are a lot of variables.

[MissTeeks]

Hmm. The beer didn't help make that loss feel any better. Please excuse me while I look at my 2004 scrapbook and cry myself to sleep.

[timbit]

27 goals against in the last six road games. They better work harder on the new offensive scheme. They will need to.

[dino7c]

team has to make big moves now...its not some big plan or anything they are being forced into it like every other team, hope they do the right things. With the assets and resources they have it could turn pretty fast. No use if freaking out about the Flames until the deadline if they stand pat. Honestly they have never been in THIS situation despite what some think. In past years they had a legit should at the playoffs, not this year.

anyway I'm out

[Yoho]

Young gun era back in full effect soon. Should be an interesting week to come.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by flameswin

This perception from a large portion of our fanbase that Iginla doesn't care is such horse****, imo. He's put this team on his back for most of his career, and now at 35 is getting to a point where he can't physically lead a team like he could in his twenties and early thirties, yet is still in that position because of a failure on the part of management.

Awesome player, great person, bad leader. Iggy is what he is, and this is a business. A lot of us get caught up in the emotional side of sport, and justifiably so, as we spend countless hours watching and posting about them.

Let's face fact for a minute though, this team with Iggy has gone no where since 2004 nearly 10 years ago. Is it his fault he never had a #1 centre? No. Is it his fault many of the trades did not work out? No.

Is it his fault that many nights since 2010 this team has floated, and not cared. I dunno, that is a lot to put on one guy. He is the captain though, and he's got to take some blame. Too many nights this team needed a guy leading by example and he wasn't there.

I won't blame him for that, but he is in name and pay the leader and has to own that. Maybe going to Pittsburgh and being just another guy is the better fit. It doesn't mean he is awful, or a bad player. He will always be one of my favourite all time Flames.

Maybe I have had too much to drink tonight, but honestly I want Iggy to go. Sometimes in life a breakup is hard but is for the best. No one is at fault, just time to move on.

On a side, if they move Iggy, they better ship Fore, Cammi, and Glencross. Those guys gotta go too.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by PantherExtreme

I really have to walk you through it? No one thought iggy was a bad captain in 04 and no one would think he were a bad captain if he was captain of the hawks. Id like to see him shipped out and the team make up definitely needs a change but Jarome did well as captain. The effect of a captain is often overstated.

I don't agree with the bolded part at all. You look at the Cup winning teams the last few years, they all have a common theme. The captain put the team on his shoulders and led by example. Even if said captain wasn't scoring, the team would go through a wall for their captain. Now consider what happened to Vancouver when H. Sedin allowed himself to be a punching bag. That to me was a defining moment and when the Canucks lost the Cup, there was no recovering from that the team was demoralized and just rolled over and died.

As for 2004, D. Sutter was a huge reason the Flames went on that run. Darryl demands accountability and excellence, players are literally afraid to let him down. The Flames have had little to no accountability the last few years, players that are stinking up the place often enjoy all the iced time they want, just because the name on the jersey. Darryl Sutter never allowed that nonsense and would call out anyone on the team.

[M*A*S*H 4077]

I've never been the biggest Iginla fan. I appreciate his skill, how he plays the game, just never was the biggest fan. I do think Iginla has given everything he could to this team (and more importantly this city). That said I believe the time has come for the Flames and Iggy to mutually part ways. All good things come to an end. A return in a trade for Iggy would (potentially) quicken a rebuild and the mantle has already been passed as far as athletes engaging the community.

Easily the best Flame ever, but the time has come

[Dion]

Troubling words from Hartley

“Deja-vu,’’ muttered the Calgary Flames’ head coach of a 5-1 pasting administered by the - yes, wait for it ... - Columbus Blue Jackets on Friday evening. “Turnovers in our zone and the puck is in our net. There’s not much more to say tonight (than what was said) in Dallas and Nashville.

“It seems like our road recipe.

“We’ll find out that recipe doesn’t work too well for us.’’

The question of nerves and buckling under the pressure isn’t an excuse, he added.

“I’m not in their body. We’re pros. We’re paid to face pressure, to face challenges, to play big games, face the media and face the fans. We’re in the entertainment business. That’s the job we chose. If they can handle it or can’t, I can’t answer those questions for them.

“If I’d know the answer to our problem, I’d fix it right away.’’

The boss is also clearly weary of trying to mine positives out of losses.

“Pushback is worth what it’s worth,’’ he scoffed. “When you push back and you win, you say that we’re building character and all the right things. But tonight, like the two other games, the other teams were simply better than us.

“We didn’t give ourselves a chance to win.’’

"With T.J. Brodie, we can live with some rookie mistakes,’’ said Hartley. “With the veteran group we have, one thing we should have is poise. Poise and urgency. But no one does mistakes on purpose. I know this group. We’re with them. We have to find solutions. Solutions are within our locker room. We can’t find solutions anywhere else.’’

http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/...313/story.html

[oldschoolcalgary]

A different era, but in 2004, calgary was a hard team to play against. They hated to lose, and they would send a message if they were losing, by punishing you.

Iggy was the heart of that team, no question, and when he was upset, damn, he was one if the best. Like "The Shift" in game 5 vs TB. A bull in a china shop leading to saprykin's game winner.

But that was 9 years ago, with a 26 yr old Iggy in his prime.

As any 35+ year old on this board can attest, the body simply can't raise up to that same level game after game, season after season.

Iggy is still expected to be 'that' Iggy, but that is not possible. And he's had no one to pass that torch onto.

Seeing a 35 year old Iggy going out to fight in Nashville and having zero response from his team mates was one of the most disappointing things I've seen in a long time

[puckluck2]

Funny how people call him a bad leader when he was voted the best leader by the guys he plays against in the NHL.

[PantherExtreme]

Originally Posted by zamler

I don't agree with the bolded part at all. You look at the Cup winning teams the last few years, they all have a common theme. The captain put the team on his shoulders and led by example. Even if said captain wasn't scoring, the team would go through a wall for their captain. Now consider what happened to Vancouver when H. Sedin allowed himself to be a punching bag. That to me was a defining moment and when the Canucks lost the Cup, there was no recovering from that the team was demoralized and just rolled over and died.

As for 2004, D. Sutter was a huge reason the Flames went on that run. Darryl demands accountability and excellence, players are literally afraid to let him down. The Flames have had little to no accountability the last few years, players that are stinking up the place often enjoy all the iced time they want, just because the name on the jersey. Darryl Sutter never allowed that nonsense and would call out anyone on the team.

Iggy did just that in 2004 as a young top player. He was the tough, high intangibles all out on the ice, fight in the finals leader, best player in the game blablabla all the hype every captain gets when winning. You stated flat out hes a bad leader which is you getting worked up watching him unable to lead at 35 with a bunch of scrubs. Please save this attitude and be ready to use it on toews,brown, etc. in 12 years when they miss the playoffs on a crap going nowhere team and look disinterested.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Funny how people call him a bad leader when he was voted the best leader by the guys he plays against in the NHL.

I don't think "bad leader" is the right word, I would say "wrong leader" going forward. It has been stated that he is not vocal in the dressing room or on the bench. He is a guy that leads by example which was fine when he could carry this team on his back. Now he can't, and in the last couple of years, takes shifts and games off.

[zamler]

You have a short memory Panther. The Flames bowed out of the playoffs in the 1st round every year since 2004, and Iginla at times completely vanished.