Congresswoman and 17 others shot in Arizona

[T@T]

I'm no firearms expert but I don't think he was very accurate at all, he was in a large crowd and hit 18 people with 31 bullets. hell one could close their eyes for those results.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by peter12

Because they go through bullet-proof vests.

What. If you throw a glock they go threw vests?

Seriously though.Pretty sure it's the type of bullet that goes threw vests, and if cops are getting into gun fights with criminals with bullet-proof vests the gun problems in the USA are bigger than I thought.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by T@T

What. If you throw a glock they go threw vests?

Seriously though.Pretty sure it's the type of bullet that goes threw vests, and if cops are getting into gun fights with criminals with bullet-proof vests the gun problems in the USA are bigger than I thought.

Criminals wearing bullet proof vests is not at all uncommon, and it's not limited to a particular country.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by T@T

I'm no firearms expert but I don't think he was very accurate at all, he was in a large crowd and hit 18 people with 31 bullets. hell one could close their eyes for those results.

Pistols are not super accurate at the best of time, recoil tends to beat the sh%t out of your aim. Unless I'm standing inside of 10 feet away from you and I'm not experienced and I'm in control of my body then chances are I'm going to shoot high and right, especially if from what I understand this guy was ripping rounds off.

It doesn't sound like this guy was all that trained up.

[GirlySports]

Here's what I don't get. How the hell did this guy, who had been kicked out of a community college because of mental issues, and told he couldn't re-enroll without a psych evaluation, and was too crazy to be allowed in the armed forces, walk into a store and buy a gun? And not just a gun, 30 rounds! HOW? Regardless of your views on gun control laws, aren't those the kind of people that everyone can agree shouldn't have guns?

[algernon]

The news on CBC says the Doctors have been communicating with the Congresswoman. They also mentioned that the bullet didn't cross the brain's hemispheres, making the injury less severe.

[pylon]

From CNN:

A 9mm Glock handgun was used in the shootings, Mueller said Sunday. It was purchased at a gun store in November, hesaid. The weapon had an extended magazine, according to a federal law enforcement source briefed on the investigation.

To me, this is another reason easy access to guns is a problem. I am pretty sure had they known this guy was kicked out of school because of mental issues, he would not have been allowed to buy one.

I would have at least expected to hear it was an untraceble weapon aquired on the black market. But this looney tune just walked into a store to get it.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by pylon

From CNN:

A 9mm Glock handgun was used in the shootings, Mueller said Sunday. It was purchased at a gun store in November, hesaid. The weapon had an extended magazine, according to a federal law enforcement source briefed on the investigation.

To me, this is another reason easy access to guns is a problem. I am pretty sure had they known this guy was kicked out of school because of mental issues, he would not have been allowed to buy one.

I would have at least expected to hear it was an untraceble weapon aquired on the black market. But this looney tune just walked into a store to get it.

They said on the tellervision that he went through an FBI background check.

[Montana Moe]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Here's what I don't get. How the hell did this guy, who had been kicked out of a community college because of mental issues, and told he couldn't re-enroll without a psych evaluation, and was too crazy to be allowed in the armed forces, walk into a store and buy a gun? And not just a gun, 30 rounds! HOW? Regardless of your views on gun control laws, aren't those the kind of people that everyone can agree shouldn't have guns?

We don't know if he purchased the gun, it may have been stolen, gifted, or a person to person transaction. The 30 round magazine would have been an aftermarket purchase, I've seen 100 round magazines for Glock 9mm.

EDIT: Looks like we have more info now ^

As far as I know, we don't know if he's ever had a professional psych evaluation. I'm not positive what agencies report to the national database. We learned with the Virginia Tech shooter that state agencies do not necessarily report to it. State vs. Federal vs. HIPAA protection issues all come into play, I'd imagine.

[billybob123]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Pistols are not super accurate at the best of time, recoil tends to beat the sh%t out of your aim. Unless I'm standing inside of 10 feet away from you and I'm not experienced and I'm in control of my body then chances are I'm going to shoot high and right, especially if from what I understand this guy was ripping rounds off.

It doesn't sound like this guy was all that trained up.

Not only that, but the second the guy starts shooting, I'm sure everyone scatters and then it's no longer the "target-rich" environment it once was - people are running, ducking, and I'm sure the shooter is now panicking.

What a screwed up situation.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Here's what I don't get. How the hell did this guy, who had been kicked out of a community college because of mental issues, and told he couldn't re-enroll without a psych evaluation, and was too crazy to be allowed in the armed forces, walk into a store and buy a gun? And not just a gun, 30 rounds! HOW? Regardless of your views on gun control laws, aren't those the kind of people that everyone can agree shouldn't have guns?

He passed an FBI background check because he didn't have a felony conviction. There IS a police record on him, but his charge "possession of drug paraphernalia" was dismissed since he entered into some kind of counselling program.

Had he been prosecuted and convicted, he would have a Class 6 Felony (the lowest grade of felony) on his record and likely would not have been allowed to purchase the gun.

The attitude in Arizona is, as I understand it, "being scary and odd isn't enough to revoke your 2nd amendment rights".

[tjinaz]

9mm is pretty much what bullet proof vests are made for. Most law enforcement grade vests will stand up to much more powerful rounds. Your basic bullet proof vest will stop 9mm all day long. That he used full metal jackets is likely because he is cheap. most FMJ rounds are for target practice, you pay more for the hollow points designed to do damage to people.

The attitude in Arizona is, as I understand it, "being scary and odd isn't enough to revoke your 2nd amendment rights".

The laws in AZ are to follow the federal guidelines, when you buy you fill out the requisite federal paperwork like anywhere else. Nice try though.

[Jordan!]

What's ironic to me as a Gun owner in Arizona is this, I own a gun to protect myself from nut cases like this. They do ask you if you suffer from mental illness on the application to purchase a gun but if someone is mentally ill do you think they'd actually write yes?? I do believe that people should have the right to buy handguns but there HAS to be some kind of screening process, or at the very least a license process.

This guy can rot

[Stimpy]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

They said on the tellervision that he went through an FBI background check.

That's a little misleading. Most people think of an FBI background check as a substantial process where your background is investigated. It doesn't work that way. Most background checks are simple queries against CJIS or NCIC databases. If you don't have certain types of hits you are considered cleared. A lot of people confuse a background check with the process of a security clearance, which is where an investigation is actually conducted.

Purchasing a gun in Arizona requires you to fill out the most basic of information, show a drivers license and the proprietor makes a call to a central clearing house where a NCIC check is made. This checks for felony criminal history and can be ignorant of minor misdemeanors, like his run ins with the college police. That's a problem with the system. People who rack up serial misdemeanor charges, like those with behaviors conducive with mental illness, can fall through the cracks.

[BigBrodieFan]

I've been at my son's basketball tournament out of town all since the initial news yesterday and a few posts, I haven't read anything- He was shooting a 9mm Glock and he hit 19 people???

I can't believe he was shooting a 9mm.. I am shocked. I am wondering (about to google) if he had any other weapons?

EDIT- Yes, a glock 9mm- and apparently was tackled by people as he reloaded. I would have thought it was an automatic rifle he was using to spray bullets.

[Calgaryborn]

I forget which State it originated in but, there is a case that is going to end up at the Supreme court arguing that immigrants with green cards should be covered by the second amendment and be allowed to own guns. Legal experts seem to think it will be upheld because there has to be a compeling reason not to afford aliens a constitutional right. The ACLU is bringing the case foreward.

This will be good for Canadian gun owners. Right now because of federal laws we can't carry or purchase firearms in the States. If this case is won a Canadian could purchase a rifle or pistol across the line and then register it immediately in Canada by phone. One week later he/she would get the registration card in the mail. He/she could then go down and bring the weapon across after paying the duty. This will give Canadian firearm stores some needed competition and should bring prices down by a third.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

This will be good for Canadian gun owners. Right now because of federal laws we can't carry or purchase firearms in the States. If this case is won a Canadian could purchase a rifle or pistol across the line and then register it immediately in Canada by phone. One week later he/she would get the registration card in the mail. He/she could then go down and bring the weapon across after paying the duty. This will give Canadian firearm stores some needed competition and should bring prices down by a third.

Sweeeet.....(fingers crossed)

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

I forget which State it originated in but, there is a case that is going to end up at the Supreme court arguing that immigrants with green cards should be covered by the second amendment and be allowed to own guns. Legal experts seem to think it will be upheld because there has to be a compeling reason not to afford aliens a constitutional right. The ACLU is bringing the case foreward.

This will be good for Canadian gun owners. Right now because of federal laws we can't carry or purchase firearms in the States. If this case is won a Canadian could purchase a rifle or pistol across the line and then register it immediately in Canada by phone. One week later he/she would get the registration card in the mail. He/she could then go down and bring the weapon across after paying the duty. This will give Canadian firearm stores some needed competition and should bring prices down by a third.

Goody?

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

What's ironic to me as a Gun owner in Arizona is this, I own a gun to protect myself from nut cases like this. They do ask you if you suffer from mental illness on the application to purchase a gun but if someone is mentally ill do you think they'd actually write yes?? I do believe that people should have the right to buy handguns but there HAS to be some kind of screening process, or at the very least a license process.

This guy can rot

That gun would not have protected you from him or people like him. Even if you carried it on your hip it's likely he would have targeted you with the first bullet.

You are not protecting yourself or your family by owning a gun, it's common sense, odds are about 3-1 that your gun will kill you or a family member before it protects you. odds are about 21-1 that your gun will hurt someone else other than the criminal you bought it for protection from.
If gun possession made you safer, the United States would be the safest place on earth. instead you have the worst gun violence per capita than any other developed country.

You and your country needs to wake the f'ck up. you can start by destroying your gun.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

I wonder if the 'criminals who can get guns if they want them regardless of gun laws' in Canada would be able to get them if the US had similar gun laws as Canada does.