Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by terryclancy

You had to know this was coming.

The ####ty comment or the not guilty?

Both were expected.

[terryclancy]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

The ####ty comment or the not guilty?

Both were expected.

Both, but I was (unclearly) commenting on the ****** post.

[dieHARDflameZ]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Poor guys' lives effectively ruined over this. Hopefully they can finally turn the page

Right because the guys are the real victims here…. You can’t be serious.

[FlamesAddiction]

The prosecution lawyer said no decision to appeal now, but they didn't rule it out.

[GioforPM]

Edmonton signs Hart, Hart craps the bed. Because he's a mid goalie who hasn't played in 1.5 years.

[Funkhouser]

Originally Posted by dieHARDflameZ

Right because the guys are the real victims here…. You can’t be serious.

EM may be a victim (although the courts suggest otherwise).

But it is not difficult to look at this situation through the players' eyes and not see a different perspective:
-You work your entire life towards achieving a nearly impossible goal.
-You engage in, what you believe to be, consensual group sex (albeit in a frat boy environment that does not reflect well on any participant).
-You achieve your goal of making the NHL.
-Years later, you are accused of rape/sexual assault and your career disappears overnight based on an unproven accusation.
-You are publicly charged.
-Two years later, the courts determine you are not guilty. Regardless, the court of public opinion is strongly against you (as evidenced in this thread).
-The likelihood of re-entering the NHL, or recouping the lost millions in revenue is microscopic. For the rest of your life, people will associate you with sexual assault, even though the courts suggest otherwise.


Victim is maybe not the right word, but I do have empathy for the players, especially if it was a consensual event (which the court believes).


Basically no one won aside from a few lawyers. Not the players. Not EM. Not the crown.

[cam_calderon]

"Especially" if it was consensual?

[Bingo]

I don't think it has to be criminal to know what went down was wrong.

I'd hope my kid at 18 to 19 would have had better common sense to know something just wasn't "right".

I'd be disappointed if he didn't.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I don't think it has to be criminal to know what went down was wrong.

I'd hope my kid at 18 to 19 would have had better common sense to know something just wasn't "right".

I'd be disappointed if he didn't.

Yep, this summarizes it for me as well.
You wont convince me for a second these guys didn't know what they were doing was WRONG and could get them in trouble career wise. They literally started it all off by having her film a video to consent.
Not to mention some of them taking turns seeing how hard they could spank (hit is more accurate) her as grown men.
The spitting, tea bagging, and all the other degrading #### crosses the line for me.

If you cant bring yourself to realize this, and if you found out your son or your daughter heaven forbid was involved in this as a parent, I'd hope to god you would react accordingly.

Just disappointing all around, and like someone said already, NOBODY but the lawyers (financially) won.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

C'mon, you're a lawyer. You must understand why it's a good thing that Canadians cannot be easily convicted on the basis of an allegation alone.

C’mon, you’re a human being. How will a rapist ever be convicted if there were only two people in the room? Free pass for rapists?

I don’t know that the answer is.

In a civil suit the victim only needs to cover on the balance of probabilities.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

He's not our guy.

Are we denying that Dube was a Flame? He was a Flames draft pick at the time of the incident, played 325 games for the Flames and was in the lineup when the accusations came out.


I was a big supporter of this player while he was a Flame, so it makes it extra disappointing that this is the type of guy he was.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

Are we denying that Dube was a Flame? He was a Flames draft pick at the time of the incident, played 325 games for the Flames and was in the lineup when the accusations came out.


I was a big supporter of this player while he was a Flame, so it makes it extra disappointing that this is the type of guy he was.

I'm disappointed in all of it. My disappointment in Dube is no different than it is for the rest.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Funkhouser

EM may be a victim (although the courts suggest otherwise).

But it is not difficult to look at this situation through the players' eyes and not see a different perspective:
-You work your entire life towards achieving a nearly impossible goal.
-You engage in, what you believe to be, consensual group sex (albeit in a frat boy environment that does not reflect well on any participant).
-You achieve your goal of making the NHL.
-Years later, you are accused of rape/sexual assault and your career disappears overnight based on an unproven accusation.
-You are publicly charged.
-Two years later, the courts determine you are not guilty. Regardless, the court of public opinion is strongly against you (as evidenced in this thread).
-The likelihood of re-entering the NHL, or recouping the lost millions in revenue is microscopic. For the rest of your life, people will associate you with sexual assault, even though the courts suggest otherwise.


Victim is maybe not the right word, but I do have empathy for the players, especially if it was a consensual event (which the court believes).


Basically no one won aside from a few lawyers. Not the players. Not EM. Not the crown.

Even though the courts suggested otherwise, the testimony of the players themselves made them look like horrible human beings.

Lost in this is the fact Hockey Canada paid millions of dollars to keep this out of the news.

They likely got off lightly, all things considered.

It's impossible for me to feel any empathy towards any of these players.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by troutman

C’mon, you’re a human being. How will a rapist ever be convicted if there were only two people in the room? Free pass for rapists?

I don’t know that the answer is.

In some cases, physical evidence like injuries, video evidence that puts into question someone's agency or autonomy, and reliable testimony that isn't counter to video evidence and is consistent over time.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Yep, this summarizes it for me as well.
You wont convince me for a second these guys didn't know what they were doing was WRONG and could get them in trouble career wise. They literally started it all off by having her film a video to consent.
Not to mention some of them taking turns seeing how hard they could spank (hit is more accurate) her as grown men.
The spitting, tea bagging, and all the other degrading #### crosses the line for me.

If you cant bring yourself to realize this, and if you found out your son or your daughter heaven forbid was involved in this as a parent, I'd hope to god you would react accordingly.

Just disappointing all around, and like someone said already, NOBODY but the lawyers (financially) won.

I absolutely agree with all of this. And, having two daughters, I cannot even imagine how horrible it would be for one of them to go through something like this. I feel very badly for the poor girl, and hate every second of this.

And yet, I am still able to understand and recognize that, in some ways, the boys are victims of the process as well (it is possible to have empathy on both sides). Yes, their behavior was reprehensible. But yes, I can still feel badly for them as well. Everybody loses here - it is just a horrible situation in every respect.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Even though the courts suggested otherwise, the testimony of the players themselves made them look like horrible human beings.

Lost in this is the fact Hockey Canada paid millions of dollars to keep this out of the news.

They likely got off lightly, all things considered.

It's impossible for me to feel any empathy towards any of these players.

There is a need/desire to direct anger somewhere, in situations like this, and I still want to direct some at Hockey Canada.

The girl has been punished mercilessly. The boys have now been punished pretty severely as well. But Hockey Canada has slipped away.

I want MUCH more accountability from them and towards them.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

Are we denying that Dube was a Flame? He was a Flames draft pick at the time of the incident, played 325 games for the Flames and was in the lineup when the accusations came out.


I was a big supporter of this player while he was a Flame, so it makes it extra disappointing that this is the type of guy he was.

Why though? Why does this matter? Do you feel some sort of weird shame that you cheered for the player? Because you shouldn’t feel that. I don’t understand the connection you’re trying to make.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I absolutely agree with all of this. And, having two daughters, I cannot even imagine how horrible it would be for one of them to go through something like this. I feel very badly for the poor girl, and hate every second of this.

And yet, I am still able to understand and recognize that, in some ways, the boys are victims of the process as well (it is possible to have empathy on both sides). Yes, their behavior was reprehensible. But yes, I can still feel badly for them as well. Everybody loses here - it is just a horrible situation in every respect.

The thing is none of us know what the actual facts are. Hard to state who is the a victim without that knowledge. I do know that the players acted in a way that was totally disrespectful to women though, regardless of whether she consented. Based on the tone of the communications between them, it seemed to be habitual behaviour too. So it's hard for me to feel too sorry for them, even if they are innocent.

[Squirrel]

So Dube will be back in the Flames lineup.
Maybe also Topi Ronni in the Flames rookie camp this fall?

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Squirrel

So Dube will be back in the Flames lineup.
Maybe also Topi Ronni in the Flames rookie camp this fall?

Flames don't have the NHL rights to either player.

The didn't qualify Dube, so he is UFA.

They renounced draft rights to Ronni shortly after he was found guilty.