Minneapolis PD Suffocate Unarmed Black Man Who Later Dies in Hospital

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Like white people can’t say “All Lives Matter”.

Sure, that's true, you shouldn't say "all lives matter"... You also shouldn't say "white power", or "Jews will not replace us", or "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children". I'm sure there's a full list of no-go phrases somewhere for reference.

... Seriously, what was your point here? I'm not suggesting these things are equivalent but they're slogans of political ideology that will cause people to make assumptions about your beliefs and priorities. Why is that surprising?

[PsYcNeT]

Peak White persecution is telling people to not say the n-word while asking them to wear a mask into Wal-Mart.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I'd wager $100 that the person in the editorial meeting who denounced Mesley is white.

She was quoting someone else's words in an editorial meeting for the purposes of a news story. There's a difference between being sensitive and creating an unprecedented and absolute taboo around a word. This is getting into realm of fundamentalist religious shibboleths here.

Where do I collect my $100

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/wendy...lker-1.5629414

For an industry that prides itself on 'transparency & accountability,' the power dynamics are unethical," Walker wrote in a Twitter thread posted Friday.

"I have stayed quiet until now, but it's important to note: There was 'disciplinary' action because I was on the call," Walker tweeted.

"There was a Black person present to hold people accountable."

https://mobile.twitter.com/imaaniwaa...44098208546821

[Cali Panthers Fan]

I thought this was a very good op-ed today on the crises (note the plurality) in America and why social justice activism does little to actually change things. For those of us who actually want to help, implementing actual policy, changing laws, and organizing the community to fill in economic and social gaps is key to actually making lasting change, not getting worked up over woke signaling.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/25/o...-protests.html

The Social Justice activists sometimes claim that if you don’t like their tactics then you are not fighting for racial equity or economic justice or whatever. But those movements all existed long before Social Justice affixed itself to them and tried to change their methods.

The core problem is that the Social Justice theory of change doesn’t produce much actual change. Corporations are happy to adopt some woke symbols and hold a few consciousness-raising seminars and go on their merry way. Worse, this method has no theory of politics.

How exactly is all this cultural agitation going to lead to legislation that will decrease income disparities, create better housing policies or tackle the big challenges that I listed above? That part is never spelled out. In fact, the Sturm und Drang makes political work harder. You can’t purify your way to a governing majority.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

I thought this was a very good op-ed today on the crises (note the plurality) in America and why social justice activism does little to actually change things. For those of us who actually want to help, implementing actual policy, changing laws, and organizing the community to fill in economic and social gaps is key to actually making lasting change, not getting worked up over woke signaling.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/25/o...-protests.html

I agree with some of this. But I also think this aspect of the general movement is amplified beyond its importance by opponents of it. Opponents want to distract from this moment by focusing on statues being taken down when in reality it's such a tiny portion of what has happened.

Social justice however is too broad of a term. Police brutality would been considered a social justice issue a few years ago and it was a legitimate issue.

[Swift]

To present any objection to this situation as "wanting to be edgy" or intentionally racist is lazy and disingenuous. I have no inclination to say the word. I've probably only said it once or twice in my life, specifically in conversations surrounding usage of the word, and then only involving people I trust not to be offended. I'm obviously not going to use it in a conversation at work just for ####s and giggles. I'm aware that it's an incredibly offensive word and I'm not arguing that people should be allowed to go around saying it willy nilly.

My argument is that in a journalistic context, specifically citing the name of a publication, using the word shouldn't be grounds for a reprimand. My earlier questions weren't touched on. Should a university professor expect to be reprimanded or fired for quoting the word in an academic context? What about someone reading To Kill a Mockingbird bird out loud as mentioned earlier? Is it your contention that no white person should utter those words whatsoever, regardless of context?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Cameron Swift

My argument is that in a journalistic context, specifically citing the name of a publication, using the word shouldn't be grounds for a reprimand. My earlier questions weren't touched on. Should a university professor expect to be reprimanded or fired for quoting the word in an academic context? What about someone reading To Kill a Mockingbird bird out loud as mentioned earlier? Is it your contention that no white person should utter those words whatsoever, regardless of context?

For the bolded, I agree, but it doesn’t appear this was the case.

For the rest of your questions, no, no, and no.

But it’s also important to be aware of your words and actions. I think it’s fair that any white person should know that by saying the n-word they may offend, regardless of the context. That doesn’t mean it must be avoided at all costs, but just that there’s some personal responsibility in knowing the effect of your words and actions. That’s sort of a basic human quality.

Saying the word in a journalistic or academic context is likely to come without reprimand (not saying it’d be unheard of). I’ve heard white professors say it in front of Black students and white “SJW” students alike, in an academic context, and nothing happened. Nobody got reprimanded, no apologies were issued, nobody walked out. Things, largely, make sense in the world and people are generally reasonable. I think some people get lost in obsessing over whatever the loudest voices on the internet are obsessed with, and it’s rarely a good representation of how most things go in the day to day.

The problem with Mesley is that it appears she said it in a non-journalistic context, and said it just to say it.

[PsYcNeT]

I'm sure the pillars of academia would topple and a greater loss than the entire burning of Alexandria would have occurred had she referred to the book as "White N-words of America".

It's good we didn't fall down this slippery slope into an educational pit of decorum and respect for other people.

[CliffFletcher]

I hope those who are piously calling for decorum and respect for others never use the words damn, goddamn, jesus , or christ in anger. Because those words hurt and offend.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I hope those who are piously calling for decorum and respect for others never use the words damn, goddamn, jesus , or christ in anger. Because those words hurt and offend.

Come. On.

Whataboutism is beneath you.

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I hope those who are piously calling for decorum and respect for others never use the words damn, goddamn, jesus , or christ in anger. Because those words hurt and offend.

But ####ing #### sucker is okay!

Same with mother ####er. #### ####er. We could go on

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I just don't see this as a) anything new or b) an area of real concern for a legitimate slippery slope. It's never been okay to say the n-word, or other racist epithets. This isn't an ever-expanding category. The only expansion I can think of is the broadening of the category to include homophobic slurs and the like, and I can't exactly say I object to that.

The argument really shouldn't be about whether a person can say the n-word or not, but rather what the consequences should be, and obviously that depends on the context. Given the context here, having to endure public shaming and disciplinary action do seem pretty extreme.

But I'm not so much bothered by the consequences to Mesley as the general atmosphere that seems to exist in news organizations at this point, as I noted in talking about that Taibbi article in the US politics thread last week.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Sure, that's true, you shouldn't say "all lives matter"... You also shouldn't say "white power", or "Jews will not replace us", or "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children". I'm sure there's a full list of no-go phrases somewhere for reference.

... Seriously, what was your point here? I'm not suggesting these things are equivalent but they're slogans of political ideology that will cause people to make assumptions about your beliefs and priorities. Why is that surprising?

Equality is not about words, it’s about actions. Being told what we can and cannot say, what we should or should not say, or what is or isn’t offensive helps create division and further apathy towards true equality, be it race, religion or sexuality. Words are the low hanging fruit, gay bashing, religious persecution and police selection/ training and policies the issue.

What I would like to hear, and what would go along way in dealing with the ignorance within my own extended family would be something like. “You know what? Call me whatever the **** you want, but treat me equal!!” That would be a better bridge to build then saying “nope can’t use the word thug” or not using ethnicity when describing a suspect, or mandating X% of work force must be visible minority.

There is a massive part of the population who believe the pendulum in society has swung passed equal and gone to special. This creates further problems and ignorance among the already ignorant. Being told to say Black Lives Matter and you can’t say All Lives Matter is just one example.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Equality is not about words, it’s about actions. Being told what we can and cannot say, what we should or should not say, or what is or isn’t offensive helps create division and further apathy towards true equality, be it race, religion or sexuality. Words are the low hanging fruit, gay bashing, religious persecution and police selection/ training and policies the issue.

What I would like to hear, and what would go along way in dealing with the ignorance within my own extended family would be something like. “You know what? Call me whatever the **** you want, but treat equal!!” That would be a better bridge to build then saying “nope can’t use the word thug” or using ethnicity when describing a suspect, or mandating X% of work force must be visible minority.

There is a massive part of the population who believe the pendulum in society has swung passed equal and gone to special. This creates further problems and ignorance among the already ignorant. Being told to say Black Lives Matter and you can’t say All Lives Matter is just one example.

So it isn’t about words, but hearing “Black Lives Matter” and completely missing the point of that phrase is being unequal? Even though no one supporting that messages spirit is saying or acting like non-black lives don’t matter?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I hope those who are piously calling for decorum and respect for others never use the words damn, goddamn, jesus , or christ in anger. Because those words hurt and offend.

Jesus Christ you just are intentionally not getting it.

The day the white Christian male is being shot by cops at a much higher rate we can deal with it.

It’s also not even close to the same given the word has not been used as part of history of oppression.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

So it isn’t about words, but hearing “Black Lives Matter” and completely missing the point of that phrase is being unequal? Even though no one supporting that messages spirit is saying or acting like non-black lives don’t matter?

Being labelled a racist because you are not using today’s buzzwords is not the same as being a racist because you truly are ignorant in your attitude and actions.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Equality is not about words, it’s about actions. Being told what we can and cannot say, what we should or should not say, or what is or isn’t offensive helps create division and further apathy towards true equality, be it race, religion or sexuality. Words are the low hanging fruit, gay bashing, religious persecution and police selection/ training and policies the issue.

What I would like to hear, and what would go along way in dealing with the ignorance within my own extended family would be something like. “You know what? Call me whatever the **** you want, but treat me equal!!” That would be a better bridge to build then saying “nope can’t use the word thug” or not using ethnicity when describing a suspect, or mandating X% of work force must be visible minority.

There is a massive part of the population who believe the pendulum in society has swung passed equal and gone to special. This creates further problems and ignorance among the already ignorant. Being told to say Black Lives Matter and you can’t say All Lives Matter is just one example.

There is a massive part of the population that is wrong.

You understand that no one saying all lives matter is saying it because they believe that all lives matter. It is intentionally being said in response to people advocating for change. And if they truly believed that “ All Lives Matter” they would be advocating for the implementation of the Black Lives Matter policing reforms as they have been shown to reduce All Deaths, not just Black deaths.

It isn’t up to the person that isn’t being treated equal to change their behaviour to appease your extended family. The idea that they should behave and protest in a specific way as to not offend the ignorant is ridiculous. An ignorant by-standerd is not their problem.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Being labelled a racist because you are not using today’s buzzwords is not the same as being a racist because you truly are ignorant in your attitude and actions.

It’s not about being labeled a racist. It’s about protesting a protest for human rights. It’s at the very least, a dick move. It’s hard to present an argument fighting for All Lives Matter without discrediting Black Lives Matter. There is an obvious conclusion to that thought process, but I don’t consider it open and shut racism. More just pure idiocy at this point.

[Scroopy Noopers]

[Swift]

In retrospect Black Lives Matter Too would've been a better slogan to avoid these comebacks, but I suspect the All Lives Matter crew would've found some other reason to set themselves off.