The ongoing X and Elon Musk Transgressions Thread

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

I love Warren Buffett.

Even Buffett has made money exploiting people and monopolization. Billionaires are immoral.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by kermitology

Even Buffett has made money exploiting people and monopolization. Billionaires are immoral.

“I’ll keep it short and sweet.

Family. Religion. Friendship. These are the three demons you must slay if you wish to succeed in business.

When opportunity knocks, you don’t want to be driving to the maternity hospital or sitting in some phoney baloney church!

Or sYnAGoGUe!”

-that guy everybody hates.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Honest question: why is Tesla stock double Mercedes and $60 up on VW? It’s $30 higher than Toyota.

Share price is meaningless in isolation. You have to multiply the price by how many shares have been issued to get market capitalization:

Mercedes: $79B

VW: $72B

Tesla: $551B

So Tesla is 8x the market cap of Mercedes and VW respectively.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Share price is meaningless in isolation. You have to multiply the price by how many shares have been issued to get market capitalization:

Mercedes: $79B

VW: $72B

Tesla: $551B

So Tesla is 8x the market cap of Mercedes and VW respectively.

But Mercedes and VW do things.

What does Tesla do that’s so valuable?

[opendoor]

At this point, make EVs profitably, which is something other carmakers haven't really accomplished yet.

That doesn't justify the company's value, but if we are actually going to be phasing out ICEs in the somewhat near future and the other carmakers are still unable to make EVs profitably and at scale, then they're going to have some issues.

[marsplasticeraser]

Originally Posted by opendoor

At this point, make EVs profitably, which is something other carmakers haven't really accomplished yet.

That doesn't justify the company's value, but if we are actually going to be phasing out ICEs in the somewhat near future and the other carmakers are still unable to make EVs profitably and at scale, then they're going to have some issues.

I recall pre-covid the view for why Tesla was so valuable was that traditional carmakers would never catch up and Tesla would actually widen how far ahead they are from all other carmakers.

I feel like Tesla has some lead on traditional automakers, but they are definitely closing on Tesla.

What Tesla has done is remarkable, but the price makes no sense, as EV's are going to become commonplace and competition on price will be high, eroding Tesla pricing power.

There are also now some big negatives for the future of Tesla that should worry investors:
1. Big automakers will be able to significantly undercut Tesla pricing on EV's.
2. Big automakers are already exceeding Tesla Build quality.
3. Elon is viewed negatively by a lot of Tesla's core market. The people who are new Elon fans are not driving EV's anytime soon.

Anyways, it's interesting as Tesla's enterprise value makes no sense, but if enough people believe it should be there then it will be there. Perfectly irrational.

[neo45]

Depends what you mean by closing in on Tesla in the EV market

The products might be great, and the price competition might be stiffer now, but no company besides Tesla is making any money selling EV’s in North America. In fact the financial performance is pretty dismal for the traditional automakers.

[Fuzz]

Sure, but it was dismal for Tesla, for years, too. Every day that goes by is another day they catch up to profitability.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by neo45

Depends what you mean by closing in on Tesla in the EV market

The products might be great, and the price competition might be stiffer now, but no company besides Tesla is making any money selling EV’s in North America. In fact the financial performance is pretty dismal for the traditional automakers.

Is some of that because electric vehicles are status symbols for the rich, and not a viable internal combustion replacement for most people?

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Sure, but it was dismal for Tesla, for years, too. Every day that goes by is another day they catch up to profitability.

Not necessarily true, since the market has changed drastically in terms of competition since Tesla established itself.

And the results speak to this, things are getting worse for other EV makers not better. So is the gap actually narrowing even if the products are good?

[neo45]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Is some of that because electric vehicles are status symbols for the rich, and not a viable internal combustion replacement for most people?

I don’t think EV’s have an image problem in general, I’ve never thought of them as status symbols - the prices have dropped quite a bit.

In terms of image problem people not liking Elon could have an effect, but I was just in a bunch of liberal US major cities and the number of Tesla’s was pretty shocking. LA especially

[Fuzz]

Well ya, because Musk only let people know he was a really bad person recently.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by neo45

Not necessarily true, since the market has changed drastically in terms of competition since Tesla established itself.

And the results speak to this, things are getting worse for other EV makers not better. So is the gap actually narrowing even if the products are good?

If the idea is that somehow Tesla will forever be the only company out of all the car companies on Earth that could figure out how to do it profitably, I'm going to have to question that logic.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

But Mercedes and VW do things.

What does Tesla do that’s so valuable?

Teslas valuation has nothing to do with making cars . It’s making the software and tech that will one day have cars drive themself

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Teslas valuation has nothing to do with making cars . It’s making the software and tech that will one day have cars drive themself

What about their tech is fundamentally different from every other adaptive cruise control system on the market?

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

But Mercedes and VW do things.

What does Tesla do that’s so valuable?

I was agreeing with you. I think it's asinine that the valuation is 8x higher (which is a LOT worse than $30/share or whatever it is).

To say "their tech" justifies the valuation, that's a leftover artifact of a bunch of tech CEOs pretending they have something amazing, when really they have a pile of duct taped crap that doesn't do what their sales people claim it does.

At least that's how most of my jobs have been for the last few years.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

What about their tech is fundamentally different from every other adaptive cruise control system on the market?

Their self driving tech is best in class atm - even though it is still a ways off self driving

I’m not saying their valuation makes sense or you should buy , just that it’s the reasons they have the valuation

Having self driving shipping trucks means low cost 24 hr shipping . It would change the world .

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Their self driving tech is best in class atm - even though it is still a ways off self driving

I’m not saying their valuation makes sense or you should buy , just that it’s the reasons they have the valuation

Having self driving shipping trucks means low cost 24 hr shipping . It would change the world .

I'm more convinced this is a physical infrastructure problem. We have cheap technologies that could get self driving a lot further than the current systems trying to replicate human driving abilities.

[ripTDR]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Is some of that because electric vehicles are status symbols for the rich, and not a viable internal combustion replacement for most people?

I think it's mostly because you can get a Tesla in a reasonable amount of time, Most other EV's you can't. Also, when you take delivery they don't upcharge like most dealers do. They are quite good in this regard

[marsplasticeraser]

Originally Posted by ripTDR

I think it's mostly because you can get a Tesla in a reasonable amount of time, Most other EV's you can't. Also, when you take delivery they don't upcharge like most dealers do. They are quite good in this regard

that's a really interesting data point. how much of tesla's strong sales are simply because they've got stock?

I know a friend that bought a Hyundai simply because that was the only vehicle that was able to drive off the lot that week. Contrast that to a friend who is waiting 6-9 months for their hybrid rav4.