American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by Dion

But not as crazy as Marjorie Taylor Green or Madison Cawthorn. Lauren Bobert comes close also.

Pete Buttigieg said overpasses can be racist.

Both sides have their crazies.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

Pete Buttigieg said overpasses can be racist.

Both sides have their crazies.

The overpasses built to certain specifications as to not allow buses (used by black people) to get to the beach? Sounds racist to me.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

Pete Buttigieg said overpasses can be racist.

Both sides have their crazies.

There is truth in what he says.

We reached out to experts on highways and urban history and found wide support for Buttigieg’s assertion, although other factors often played a role as well. Buttigieg’s office also provided links to articles on the subject.

Even in cases where it’s hard to document whether racist thinking explicitly drove highway construction, the existence of divided and weakened neighborhoods in so many cities has been "racist in effect," said Earl Swift, author of "The Big Roads: The Untold Story of the Engineers, Visionaries, and Trailblazers Who Created the American Superhighways."

One of the most notorious examples of racism in highway planning predates the Interstate system: the Southern State Parkway on New York’s Long Island, which was built by the powerful planner Robert Moses.

In Robert Caro’s critical biography of Moses, "The Power Broker," Caro reveals that Moses ordered his engineers to build the bridges low over the parkway to keep buses from New York City away from Jones Beach, making it less accessible for many poor minorities without cars.

Thomas J. Campanella, a professor of architecture, art, and planning at Cornell University, investigated the anecdote and found aesthetic concerns may have played a role — but that unusually low bridges on the parkway give credence to the allegation of racism.

"It’s fair to say that the Southern State Parkway has racism in its DNA," Campanella told PolitiFact.

https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...me-urban-high/

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

That's a very constructive retort

How does electing more corporate centrists such as Sinema, Gottheimer, and Manchin actually help matters?

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by rubecube

How does electing more corporate centrists such as Sinema, Gottheimer, and Manchin actually help matters?

Your idea of “help” presupposes someone is opposed to the current status quo.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Dion

There is truth in what he says.





https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...me-urban-high/

So Buttigieg was right and BoLevi was wrong. Glad I was sitting when I found out.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

The overpasses built to certain specifications as to not allow buses (used by black people) to get to the beach? Sounds racist to me.

It's hilarious that people but into this stuff. But it is what it is.

People also think that AOC is somehow a moderate.

If you want to know why the Democrats are going to lose in the midterms and why they lost to youngkin in Virg., it's because they are saying things like overpasses are racist.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

It's hilarious that people but into this stuff. But it is what it is.

People also think that AOC is somehow a moderate.

"It's hilarious that people buy into opinions backed up by research. Not like me. I'm perfectly happy to pull my opinions directly out of my own ass and back them up with absolutely nothing."

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

It's hilarious that people but into this stuff. But it is what it is.

People also think that AOC is somehow a moderate.

People also think she’s an extremist which is equally amusing.

If you want to know why the Democrats are going to lose in the midterms and why they lost to youngkin in Virg., it's because they are saying things like overpasses are racist.

Can you find a quote where anyone said or even alluded to an overpass itself as actually being racist without any form of context regarding why it’s design appeared to be intended to restrict access from certain communities?

Maybe the reason the democrats might lose is because people, yourself included, can’t look past a headline? Just a thought.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

It's hilarious that people but into this stuff. But it is what it is.

People also think that AOC is somehow a moderate.

If you want to know why the Democrats are going to lose in the midterms and why they lost to youngkin in Virg., it's because they are saying things like overpasses are racist.

I think you have a valid point somewhere in there, but the overpasses are a terrible example. There are a lot of instances of overpass and freeway construction having real, dramatic effects on inner city neighborhoods.

I watched the VA governor race pretty closely, and there were a lot of reasons Youngkin won. It's never just an easy answer in close races. I'd rank them like this:
1.Youngkin was the first non-crazy GOP nominee for a statewide race in a long time.
2. General downturn of Democrat party popularity in general (Afghanistan was a big hit, infighting on big federal bills hurt).
3. A bunch of public school controversies in NOVA and a foot in the mouth comment by Mcauliffe.
4. Vaccine mandates and other COVID restrictions. Although our current Democrat governor handled COVID pretty well, the restrictions were a loser politically. No pro-vax Replubican is going to vote D for how they handled it, but a good chunk of very liberal anti-vaxxers went to the freedom candidate.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

Pete Buttigieg said overpasses can be racist.

Both sides have their crazies.

When they built the overpass into Vancouver they could have put it anywhere, down Hastings Street where the buses ran, down Broadway and over Granville Street but they chose to run it right over Hogan's Alley wiping out the only black neighbourhood in Vancouver destroying the whole thriving community which was utterly wiped out never to recover.

Sounds pretty racist to me

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I think you have a valid point somewhere in there, but the overpasses are a terrible example. There are a lot of instances of overpass and freeway construction having real, dramatic effects on inner city neighborhoods.

I watched the VA governor race pretty closely, and there were a lot of reasons Youngkin won. It's never just an easy answer in close races. I'd rank them like this:
1.Youngkin was the first non-crazy GOP nominee for a statewide race in a long time.
2. General downturn of Democrat party popularity in general (Afghanistan was a big hit, infighting on big federal bills hurt).
3. A bunch of public school controversies in NOVA and a foot in the mouth comment by Mcauliffe.
4. Vaccine mandates and other COVID restrictions. Although our current Democrat governor handled COVID pretty well, the restrictions were a loser politically. No pro-vax Replubican is going to vote D for how they handled it, but a good chunk of very liberal anti-vaxxers went to the freedom candidate.

All worthwhile additions to the conversation. Matt Taibbi reporting on the Virginia school issue is really good.

Even so, transportation secretaries that are approaching their job by trying to turn infrastructure into another divisive racial issue by calling highways racist is not someone that ought to be taken seriously.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Racists: Let's bulldoze black neighborhoods, build highways and make them inaccessible for the busses used by the black population. Mwaa hahahaha

People: Ummm, that's racist

Racists: Why are you making this such a divisive issue? This is why people don't like you!

People: WTF?



Sadly, and you won't hear me say this often, BoLevi is correct.

In any other "first world" country, the electorate would be like "that's bullsh*t" and would welcome recognition of the wrongs at the very least.

In Nova Scotia, pretty much everyone would agree that the demolishing of Africville to build the Mackay Bridge was pretty f****** racist.

To point the same out in the US makes you an unelectable left-wing psychopath.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

Pete Buttigieg said overpasses can be racist.

Both sides have their crazies.

I love how Pete got such flak over this. It's pretty well established that poor, typically black, communities were disproportionately affected by US infrastructure policies in the 20th centuries.

But this type of stuff has been going on in the US for decades, and continues to happen in a variety of ways, so pointing this out is immediately labeled as crazy.

"What we have been doing over the last 150 years is wrong?! Well I've never!"

[Aarongavey]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/america...ck-11640860205

A recent Quinnipiac poll found that 93% of Democrats and 56% of independents considered it an attack on the government, while only 29% of Republicans said the same. A Pew Research Center poll showed a declining share of Republicans who believe it is important that rioters be prosecuted, with 57% expressing support in September, down from 79% in March—while Democrats were steady at 95%.

Traditional Republican soft on crime, hug a thug approach to law and order. There does seem to be a visual difference between the criminals on Jan 6th and the criminals that Republicans usually want to throw the book at.

[Mr.Coffee]

Trumps going to win, and then next time will refuse to leave office and will be backed up by a quasi militia. It’ll be the start of mass civil unrest in the United States that everyone laughed at me for (before you know, literal riots occurred at the Capitol building and then Trump went and formed his own brainwashing media).

States is screwed. In 10-20 years, States might not be so “united”. Broken country. Maybe it would be just healthier for all overall if the States each went their own independent way or figure out a way to diplomatically break up sections of the country. Maybe this was the inevitable conclusion. You know when you look at a map of a continent sized geography like Europe, or Africa, how many times have borders been redrawn over history. To think the US is above all that is just the height of ignorance. Yet so many just mocked me about my chicken little prognostications. But I just can’t see how the USA gets out of this without significant societal upheaval and their entire history is just violent. They will not, culturally, stand for giving things up in a peaceful manner. This is why there’s going to be a civil war or mass (and I mean ####ing huge) civil unrest. How do you have a pandemic like we had, and then guys like Musk and Baldy Amazon guy (forget his name right now) make bazillions and bazillions and bazillions? I just saw a graphical representation of wealth inequality in the USA. It is shocking. No way that doesn’t get resolved without revolution.

It’s going to happen, is so obvious (and sad). If I was an American I’d be looking to get the #### outta there for sure. It’s not even that safe or good a country anymore. Can’t get educated. Guns and shootings all over the place. Health care not really taken care of. It’s like a third rate country for 90% of the country yet they can’t figure it out due to power structures. Which is of course, obviously, why it will collapse, obviously.

Their government literally cannot solve problems anymore. Literally can’t. Only one path forward in that scenario.

Canada is on a very similar trajectory.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Your idea of “help” presupposes someone is opposed to the current status quo.

Sad, but true.

[CliffFletcher]

American politics become easier to understand when you recognize that the Republicans and Democrats are coalitions of people with different values and interests.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...voters-survey/

The largest of the Democratic groups are the Democratic Mainstays, accounting for 28 percent of Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents. Of the four groups, they alone mostly identify themselves as moderates, and they hold less liberal views on immigration, crime and the military. They are older and less well-educated than other groups and they are the most racially diverse. They were among Biden’s strongest supporters in the 2020 Democratic nomination contest.

Black voters are far more likely to be Democratic Mainstays or in a second group called Establishment Liberals than any other. Three in 4 Democratic Mainstays say they are religiously affiliated and over one-third say practicing their religious faith is one of the most important things in their lives.

The Establishment Liberals are nearly as large, making up 23 percent of Democrats. The Pew study characterizes them as liberal, racially diverse, generally optimistic and open to compromise. They currently are among Biden’s strongest supporters, and also contributed to his victory in the party contests last year.

The third-largest group of Democrats are labeled Outsider Left. They are the youngest of the groups, liberal in their views — but, Pew says, many are discontented with the political system and the Democratic Party. Only about a third see themselves as Democrats while half are independents who lean Democratic. They are also less likely to vote than other Democratic groups. They make up 16 percent of the Democratic coalition.

The final party group, Progressive Left Democrats, are highly engaged politically and very liberal in their views. They tend to be younger and highly educated. In the 2020 Democratic primaries, they were more likely to support Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) or Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) than Biden. They are the only group of Democrats who like politicians who identify themselves as democratic socialists, as Sanders and several younger House members do. Roughly two-thirds are non-Hispanic Whites and about half have no religious affiliation. They make up about 12 percent of Americans who identify as Democrats or lean toward the Democratic Party.

tldr: Even if you combine the Outsider Left and Progressive Left, they make up only 28 per cent of Democrats. So maybe the agenda of the progressive wing of the party isn’t thwarted by traitors and shadowy moneyed interests; maybe it simply isn’t very popular.

Here’s the original Pew study that the article got its data from.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics...al-typology-2/

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

American politics become easier to understand when you recognize that the Republicans and Democrats are coalitions of people with different values and interests.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...voters-survey/



tldr: Even if you combine the Outsider Left and Progressive Left, they make up only 28 per cent of Democrats. So maybe the agenda of the progressive wing of the party isn’t thwarted by traitors and shadowy moneyed interests; maybe it simply isn’t very popular.

Here’s the original Pew study that the article got its data from.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics...al-typology-2/

Okay, Cliff, then explain why policies that enjoy greater than 60% support among Democrats, and are also +50% across the majority of political spectrum get thwarted by the establishment varieties.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Okay, Cliff, then explain why policies that enjoy greater than 60% support among Democrats, and are also +50% across the majority of political spectrum get thwarted by the establishment varieties.

Like what?