American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[2Stonedbirds]

Exactly. Which is why everyone is receptive to Fox, WaPo, ect.
Questioning the source has never been an issue until now.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Questioning a source has always been acceptable. I'm far from a Frum fan, but he does have a sketchy background from his time working with the neocons forwarding their agenda. I don't think he's that same person anymore, but because of his past I am always looking for secondary sources of information to validate/backup his claims.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by driveway

This is a spot-on perfect example of the “poisoning the well” logical fallacy. Instead of engaging with the ideas presented in an argument, the party committing the fallacy attacks the source of the ideas instead.

This isn't engaging with the source? It directly references stuff from the article. Were you looking for a 2000 word lit review or something, professor?

Originally Posted by rubecube

It's technically correct. If you want to focus on the first six months of the Biden presidency and completely ignore the last six months, then yes it's been a roaring success.

The judges thing is also incredibly misleading. The reason Biden has been able to appoint more judges than Obama did is because McConnell removed the 60 vote requirement in the Senate so that Republicans could pack the courts.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Questioning a source has always been acceptable. I'm far from a Frum fan, but he does have a sketchy background from his time working with the neocons forwarding their agenda. I don't think he's that same person anymore, but because of his past I am always looking for secondary sources of information to validate/backup his claims.

He might not be that same person anymore politically, but he does still tend to be misleading when he's trying to push a narrative.

[BoLevi]

Wait, are people arguing that Biden has had a successful presidency so far? I assume that's an attempt at humor. It's been an absolute train wreck.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Troll-a-lol.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

Wait, are people arguing that Biden has had a successful presidency so far? I assume that's an attempt at humor. It's been an absolute train wreck.

Train wreck is a bit of an overstatement but it certainly hasn't been successful.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by driveway

This is a spot-on perfect example of the “poisoning the well” logical fallacy. Instead of engaging with the ideas presented in an argument, the party committing the fallacy attacks the source of the ideas instead.

This is particularly egregious when the complaints about the source have nothing whatsoever to do with the ideas in the argument.

“Dave said that this restaurant isn’t good because they don’t use quality ingredients.”

“Yeah, well, Dave is an Oilers fan, so what the hell does he know?”

“David Frum argues that Biden has accomplished a significant amount in his presidency. He’s passed 3 trillion dollars worth of legislation with only 50 senators.”

“Yeah, well, David Frum supported the Iraq War, so what the hell does he know?“

This is actually just an ad hominem… poisoning the well is where you try to preemptively discredit someone BEFORE they say something you don’t want people to take seriously.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Train wreck is a bit of an overstatement but it certainly hasn't been successful.

You're probably right. Because it can get much worse. The mid terms are going to be ugly.

[nfotiu]

I know it probably is inevitable that the mid terms aren't going to go well for the Democrats.

It does seem self defeating or ironic that the narrative is that because Biden didn't get anything done, people are going to vote Democrats out of the house to ensure that absolutely nothing will get done for the next 2 years.

If these bills are filled with things that people actually want, then you'd think the message should be to get more Democrat senators and control the house so they can get passed.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

You're probably right. Because it can get much worse. The mid terms are going to be ugly.

As are every mid term.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I know it probably is inevitable that the mid terms aren't going to go well for the Democrats.

It does seem self defeating or ironic that the narrative is that because Biden didn't get anything done, people are going to vote Democrats out of the house to ensure that absolutely nothing will get done for the next 2 years.

If these bills are filled with things that people actually want, then you'd think the message should be to get more Democrat senators and control the house so they can get passed.

It's not all on Biden. It's just as much on people getting sick of the crazies like AOC/Warren etc being involved in the legislative process. People want both parties to come closer to the middle, rather than being pulled out to the ends of the spectrum by small groups of activists within their party. The Democrats got far too progressive, and it's going to cost them just like it cost them in Virginia, and just like it cost them with the BBB boondoggle. The Republicans got far too Trumpy.

The bills you are talking about aren't what the people want - that's the point.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

It's not all on Biden. It's just as much on people getting sick of the crazies like AOC/Warren etc being involved in the legislative process. People want both parties to come closer to the middle, rather than being pulled out to the ends of the spectrum by small groups of activists within their party. The Democrats got far too progressive, and it's going to cost them just like it cost them in Virginia, and just like it cost them with the BBB boondoggle. The Republicans got far too Trumpy.

The bills you are talking about aren't what the people want - that's the point.

AOC and Warren may be way out there ideologues but the actual crazies live on the other side of the aisle.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by edslunch

AOC and Warren may be way out there ideologues but the actual crazies live on the other side of the aisle.

There are plenty over there, too.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

There are plenty over there, too.

But not as crazy as Marjorie Taylor Green or Madison Cawthorn. Lauren Bobert comes close also.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Regardless of what you think of his policies, there were not too many more influential politicians in the last 40 years than him.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1475994714008522753

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I know it probably is inevitable that the mid terms aren't going to go well for the Democrats.

It does seem self defeating or ironic that the narrative is that because Biden didn't get anything done, people are going to vote Democrats out of the house to ensure that absolutely nothing will get done for the next 2 years.

If these bills are filled with things that people actually want, then you'd think the message should be to get more Democrat senators and control the house so they can get passed.

Lol. "Just vote harder, guys."

[rubecube]

Also, loving that the new ridiculous CDC guidelines seem to have been spurred by a letter from the CEO of Delta Airlines and "economic" concerns.

I recognize that the CDC is supposedly independent from the administration, but I can only imagine what the reaction from the MSNBC contingent would have been had this happened under Trump.

[rubecube]

Nm

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Lol. "Just vote harder, guys."

That's a very constructive retort