2023/24 No Hope Flames Rumours & Speculation Thread

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

Sadly, I don't think this was BT's worst move.

The contenders are:

• Huberdeau Contract
• Kadri Contract
• Tkachuk RFA contract that set up him being able to walk for nothing
• Not negotiating a contract extension with Johnny in the summer of 2021/trading him at that time
• Neal UFA contract
• Gulutzan coaching hire
• Monahan and an almost unprotected 1st for one year of cap relief

Then there are the lesser mistakes, like all the other coaching hires, Brouwer contract, anything related to goalies, most of the draft picks given away at trade deadlines, paying too much for 4th liners and 5/6/7 defensemen, etc, etc.

Personally, I would probably slot it in the top 5 for sure, maybe as high as #2 behind the Huberdeau contract. I guess if you consider the Monahan trade + Kadri contract as one single event then it's probably solidly in at #1 on the BT hit parade.

I consider them one event as the one move (Monahan) doesn't happen without the other happening (Kadri). They are essentially a quantum entangled trade.

[cral12]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I predict continued mediocrity for the foreseeable future.


Mediocrates should be the new team mascot. They've lived it long enough.

I've dubbed our beloved Flames the Mediocre Jokers with friends.
Mediocrates certainly fits.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

I consider them one event as the one move (Monahan) doesn't happen without the other happening (Kadri). They are essentially a quantum entangled trade.

Seems fine to link these as one event.

In my list of worst BT moves, I forgot the Hamonic trade for a 1st and TWO 2nds. That's the worst transaction BT made, and maybe the worst trade in franchise history. Only the Gilmour trade could be argued as worse.

[mikephoen]

Oh, and if you want to quantum entangle a related event to the Hamonic debacle, imagine if instead of trading for Hamonic they just offered a spot on the second pairing to Adam Fox to entice him to leave Harvard early...

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

Seems fine to link these as one event.

In my list of worst BT moves, I forgot the Hamonic trade for a 1st and TWO 2nds. That's the worst transaction BT made, and maybe the worst trade in franchise history. Only the Gilmour trade could be argued as worse.

Yep that trade was simply a disaster and one of the worst in franchise history. Unfortunately there's just too much "worst in franchise history" stuff you can attach to the Treliving regime as the team is kind of in shambles. The future of the team leveraged like a perennial cup contender yet not good enough to even make the playoffs.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

Oh, and if you want to quantum entangle a related event to the Hamonic debacle, imagine if instead of trading for Hamonic they just offered a spot on the second pairing to Adam Fox to entice him to leave Harvard early...

Don't think that mattered. He was a rich kid from NY that wanted to play in NY

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

Oh, and if you want to quantum entangle a related event to the Hamonic debacle, imagine if instead of trading for Hamonic they just offered a spot on the second pairing to Adam Fox to entice him to leave Harvard early...

Fox told the Flames when they did his pre-draft interview that he only wanted to play for the Rangers. He apparently told everyone who interviewed him the same thing.

The Flames drafted him anyway because they saw value in his contract, which they indeed got.

That's why Fox fell to the 3rd round.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Fox told the Flames when they did his pre-draft interview that he only wanted to play for the Rangers. He apparently told everyone who interviewed him the same thing.

The Flames drafted him anyway because they saw value in his contract, which they indeed got.

That's why Fox fell to the 3rd round.

Maybe Tij will do the same lol

[Burning Beard]

This is definitely the first time in a while where I see a dark future and no moves on the horizon to change that. It's all on the players now and after hearing Zadorov yesterday they don't seem to be able to find a way to get it together. Please don't lock up anymore members of this team long term Conroy. Kadri and Huberdeau are un-moveable and not helping this team unless the plan is to lose.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Maybe Tij will do the same lol

That would seem fair LOL.

[Sylvanfan]

Right now I am feeling kind of 1997 about this team. You hope they go against the odds and surprise people. But realistically it looks like they'll be about the 26th best team and the Rico Fata nightmares start coming back. Worse...those teams financial problems were more fixable for today's NHL with no real long term deals. This team has some issues with its contract commitments right now that will be nearly impossible to fix unless you just let time elapse.

[bax]

This season:

Trade Hanifin, Lindholm, Tanev, Zadorov, and Vladar exclusively for picks and prospects.

Next season do the same with Mangiapane and Sharangovich. Even being conservative you should be able to get at least 2 first round picks and a couple second/third round picks from that group. Subtract that much talent from the roster and they will be in the running for a top 10 pick as well.

Your rebuilding core is Huberdeau, Kadri, Weegar, Backlund, Coleman, and Andersson. Not good enough to be a playoff team, but there is enough leadership there to prevent the Flames from sliding into Buffalo/Edmonton levels of despair. If Andersson doesn’t want to stay long term then you have another trade chip where you can probably get a first.

Be open to retaining salary in exchange for extra picks. Be open to operating as a “broker” for other teams given the cap space the Flames will have. Be open to signing UFA’s to high dollar, one year deals where they get a clear top of the lineup opportunity and then trade them at the deadline to a contender.

Invest in scouts and analytics. Set an organizational mandate to draft as many players as possible in 2024, 2025, and 2026.

By 2027 hopefully you are on the upswing and ready to contend for the playoffs for the next decade plus. Huberdeau will have 4 years left on his deal and Kadri 2. By this point you can probably afford to buy Kadri out. New building should be ready to go.

Makes for a bleak 4-5 seasons of Flames hockey, but at this point I really don’t see any other path forward.

Treliving was right in trying to go all in with Gaudreau and Tkachuk. If Fox would have signed who knows how different things would be, but when Tkachuk told them he wasn’t signing the rebuild should have been on. I don’t blame him for trying to make it work, but it’s time to accept it didn’t.

Rebuild needs to be on now.

[Fuzz]

You are right that a rebuild needs to be now, and on the business side it's probably critical. They need to show some hope going into a new building, or selling tickets for more mediocrity is going to be a real battle.

[Funkhouser]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Fox told the Flames when they did his pre-draft interview that he only wanted to play for the Rangers. He apparently told everyone who interviewed him the same thing.

The Flames drafted him anyway because they saw value in his contract, which they indeed got.

That's why Fox fell to the 3rd round.

Source?

This is not what I have seen in the media where this was only communicated once Calgary attempted to sign him.

[Icon]

That plan laid out above by Bax feels so straight forward & obvious that it almost guarantees we don't see it in reality.

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by Icon

That plan laid out above by Bax feels so straight forward & obvious that it almost guarantees we don't see it in reality.

We don't have the 2025 1st (probably) so tanking for a top 10 pick in 24-25 isn't realistic. Other than that it's a solid plan and exactly what the hard-core fans have been pitching for a long time here.

[Funkhouser]

Just for fun(?), imagine this lineup if we hadn't Flamed it up...

Gaudreau - Lindholm - Tkachuk
Mangiapane - Backlund - Coronato
Ruzicka - Dube - Pelletier
Klapka - Zary - Duehr

Fox - Anderson
Hanafin - Dobson
Gilbert - Tanev

Markstrom
Wolf


This is a cup contender...

Edit: this roster has $5.8M in cap space as well. FML

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

You are right that a rebuild needs to be now, and on the business side it's probably critical. They need to show some hope going into a new building, or selling tickets for more mediocrity is going to be a real battle.

I am already prepared for Montreal to receive Calgary's highest ever pick. Second overall in 2025 lol

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by Funkhouser

Just for fun(?), imagine this lineup if we hadn't Flamed it up...

Gaudreau - Lindholm - Tkachuk
Mangiapane - Backlund - Coronato
Ruzicka - Dube - Pelletier
Klapka - Zary - Duehr

Fox - Anderson
Hanafin - Dobson
Gilbert - Tanev


Markstrom
Wolf


This is a cup contender...

What's the estimated cap hit of that roster. I'm estimating 91m with no spares...not bad

[Reign of Fire]

I bet Treliving laughs when he thinks about the mess he created and still landed a job in the biggest market