[PGT] Flames lay an egg

[OldSam]

Oh look, the players admit their culpability. Sure would be nice if the coaching staff would. No, they use a system that puts the brakes on any speed the team has, paralyzes any skill players we have most of the time and confidentially sucks the life out any building.

[genetic_phreek]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

And WW1 would have been over in a year if the soldiers simply executed the plan properly to go over the top, charge machine guns through no man's land and overrun the enemy.

The issue isn't execution with this team. It's that they are being asked to execute a plan that's two steps behind the competition.

War and hockey comparison. That's Ludacris.

[NewFan]

If coach doesn't care the flow of the game, and wants to roll 4 lines in any type of game, the team should get a best computer software and enter all statistics and follow it behind the bench. A good IT robot coach.

[rooster]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

I’d like to see some drafted talent in Phillips and Ruzcika given a chance over Simon and Leivo at this point.

That's not the way this team does it. They bring in garbage and force feed them down our throats until the guys that should be getting the opportunity ask for a trade. Next one that wants out will be Mangiapaine. Leivo and Simon should be released right now. "Robert" off the call in show should be the goddam coach. At least he cares.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

War and hockey comparison. That's Ludacris.

Why?

[genetic_phreek]

They should switch Tkachuk and Bennett. Dube and Lindholm are North South players and so is Bennett to a degree. Tkachuk is a slow player so the fact that Johnny likes to slow down the play might be more beneficial as well.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Bob Hartley - hasn’t coached in the NHL since leaving the Flames
Glen Gulutzan - is an assistant coach with the Edmonton Oilers
Bull Peters - hasn’t coached in the NHL since leaving the Flames
Geoff Ward - do you think he’ll be a head coach after he’s does his short stint as Flames head coach? Is there something that strikes you about his coaching ability? His line-up construction?

It isn’t exclusively the coaches, but if you think we have a good coach or that coaches don’t matter...I just don’t get it.

I absolutely also believe there are leadership issues on the ice, and roster construction issues in the GM’s office - but Ward is not a good head coach, and yeah - I guess at the end of the day all of the mediocrity falls on the shoulders of Treliving. It is just a shame that the team he built on the ice will never get to experience an even above-average head coach.

This team has won 7 games, and lost 7 games in a weak division. This is “window to compete”? Treliving has built an absolute pile of mediocrity.

Really curious as to who this magical being is that will somehow make sure these guys execute every single night when it is painfully obvious they themselves know they are the ones who arent doing so.

Is Ward a good coach? Who knows? I do know that I myself havent anywhere near enough data to make a determination on that. He hasnt even been behind the bench for the equivalent of a full NHL season....and is doing this job without ever having a full training camp, during a pandemic that doesnt allow the normal team bonding/building, and in buildings that being empty can have a real effect on the emotion guys play with. He could have the best system in the entire NHL and we would have no clue when the best players simply cant execute the most fundamental aspects of it.

I keep going back to simple little 5 foot passes because they gassed about 20 of them last night. It was hard to watch. There is not a hockey strategy in the world that doesnt include such abilities cause you cant play the game properly without them. Full stop.

I also know now that this core group of players has now been through 3 previous coaches who were all unable to get those same players executing their wants on a consistent basis over and over again. Last night was just a giant microcosm of what has ailed this team (to varying degrees) for 6 years now. The constants through that time are the top line players...coaches have come and gone, but results remain the same. Blame the coaches.

I know what I'm seeing night in and night out, and amazingly when they execute things asked of them, they win most nights. When they dont, they lose. Weird.

[genetic_phreek]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Why?

Sorry should have green text. Look at the users avatar I quoted.

[rooster]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

I’d love to see a guy like Torts behind our bench. Hire an absolute dick.

Me too. That means Johnny and Monny would be traded thou.

[2ArmBands]

This team sure can stink it up.

I get that picking on the coach is low lying fruit and probably justified. I hate the fact that it takes even a little light off the players. It’s pretty clear the problem with them is just as big as any coaching issue.

[Mr.Coffee]

This is Sean Monahan’s 8th season in the NHL. He’s played 555 regular season games.

If you have to “learn” that you have to try in the NHL, there is no saving you.

Putting forth effort on a consistent basis, is what it will take to win. This group will not do it, and we have literally hundreds of games of evidence of it over the last several years.

It’s blow it up time. This is a pretty obvious one at this point. It was obvious awhile ago but we tried lipsticking the already lipsticked pig..... again....

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Same core group that's played under 4 different coaches that will never be NHL head coaches again in the NHL. There's a trend alright and it's that the coaches simply haven't been good enough. Coaches get fired all the time and it's because you either have a good one or you don't.

Nonsense.

Its just as often because you cant change 20 guys and its much easier to change one guy.

Is Laviolette a good coach? Cause he got fired multiple times. His team is not going well right now...is it because he forgot how to coach or is it just maybe something to do with personnel?

Hell Scotty Bowman was fired multiple times...must be because he is a bad coach.

How about Gallant? Hes been fired multiple times. Some want him in Calgary? Why? Because according to your logic he is a bad coach after being fired over and over....right?

Boudreau...fired 3 times now!! 3 times as bad a coach.

All I am saying is that this group has clearly proven a tough bunch to get any consistency out of and to blame Ward for all that is just lazy and unfair. Every guy who has had them has found out the same thing.

[Young Guns]

I’ve never really thought the coach was a problem. But any coach that decides to put Josh Leivo on the ice with the goalie pulled now has me questioning him.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Really curious as to who this magical being is that will somehow make sure these guys execute every single night when it is painfully obvious they themselves know they are the ones who arent doing so.

Is Ward a good coach? Who knows? I do know that I myself havent anywhere near enough data to make a determination on that. He hasnt even been behind the bench for the equivalent of a full NHL season....and is doing this job without ever having a full training camp, during a pandemic that doesnt allow the normal team bonding/building, and in buildings that being empty can have a real effect on the emotion guys play with. He could have the best system in the entire NHL and we would have no clue when the best players simply cant execute the most fundamental aspects of it.

I keep going back to simple little 5 foot passes because they gassed about 20 of them last night. It was hard to watch. There is not a hockey strategy in the world that doesnt include such abilities cause you cant play the game properly without them. Full stop.

I also know now that this core group of players has now been through 3 previous coaches who were all unable to get those same players executing their wants on a consistent basis over and over again. Last night was just a giant microcosm of what has ailed this team (to varying degrees) for 6 years now. The constants through that time are the top line players...coaches have come and gone, but results remain the same. Blame the coaches.

I know what I'm seeing night in and night out, and amazingly when they execute things asked of them, they win most nights. When they dont, they lose. Weird.

By this do you mean on the PP when Gaudreau isn't executing because he can't stick handle through 4 players lined up at the blue line?

How can you not see the issue in this example isn't Gaudreau not executing, it's that he's being asked to execute something stupid that won't work more often than not.

How demotivating is it for your coach to keep sending you out to do something that isn't working. Because that is where we are at with this team.

What shocks me is that people seem to think coaching doesn't matter in the best hockey league in the world.

Ward got the HC job by accident, did nothing in his first year and was then re-hired when proven NHL coaches were available.

This is a giant middle finger to the fans.

[Burning Beard]

Imo you have to try a new proven coach before you blow it all up. It would seem silly not to. On paper this team is better than the team that was 1st in the West under Peters.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by rooster

Me too. That means Johnny and Monny would be traded thou.

If what you say is true, then either way they’re going to be traded or walk in free agency.

Can we try to be strategic about this for once?

There is no outcome where keeping Monahan and Gaudreau makes sense if you want to win the Stanley Cup. They will not put forth consistent efforts. Literally refuse to do it. They prioritize floating above winning.

Gaudreaus Spittin Chiclets interview where he talks about Tkachuk he literally says (paraphrasing) in regards to the Tkachuk and Muzzin incident ‘it’s only the 4th game of the season’ or something along those lines. How could that be your attitude? Like yeah c’mon Tkachuk! Stop caring so much and take a few nights off like the rest of us!

I’m sorry if you are a pro in this league and want to be the best it does not matter if it’s game 1, 7 or 59 you try every night.

Why are MacKinnon or McDavid elite players? Consistent efforts. Our guys will not do it. Refuse to.

Lazy.

[Young Guns]

Yep, and it’s infuriating watching Gio or Anderson skate to center ice and then turn and pass the puck backwards to Gaudreau who is doing a lap behind our goalie. Other teams all know that’s what is about to happen and have figured out how to defend it. Who on the coaching staff has decided this is the system we need to continue to roll with?

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Nonsense.

Its just as often because you cant change 20 guys and its much easier to change one guy.

Is Laviolette a good coach? Cause he got fired multiple times. His team is not going well right now...is it because he forgot how to coach or is it just maybe something to do with personnel?

Hell Scotty Bowman was fired multiple times...must be because he is a bad coach.

How about Gallant? Hes been fired multiple times. Some want him in Calgary? Why? Because according to your logic he is a bad coach after being fired over and over....right?

Boudreau...fired 3 times now!! 3 times as bad a coach.

All I am saying is that this group has clearly proven a tough bunch to get any consistency out of and to blame Ward for all that is just lazy and unfair. Every guy who has had them has found out the same thing.

Every single one of the coaches you mentioned had significant success in the NHL. Something Ward, Gulutzan and Peters never had.

It's even worse in Ward's case as he wasn't even a head coach. He's a PP guy who fluked into his current job.

[CsInMyBlood]

All these calling for the head of the coach posts are brutal. We win and the same people aren't praising the coaching but if we lose it's all on the coaching? No I'm not trying to say we have the best coaching in the league but come on.

Nobody is telling Sean Monahan to skate around with his head in the clouds giving the puck away. No coach is telling Sam Bennett not to win a puck battle or skate back with a disgusting disconnected controller once he does lose the puck. No coach is telling Gio to fire the puck up to opposing forwards. No coach is telling Tkachuk to make no look passes to the empty boards or to fire it wide. No coach is telling Valamaki to cough up the puck like it's a hand grenade. No coach is telling Gaudreau to skate it into a wall of 3 guys on the PP.

This is an execution failure, bad choices by players. They need to shoulder most of the blame for that last game.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Nonsense.

Its just as often because you cant change 20 guys and its much easier to change one guy.

Is Laviolette a good coach? Cause he got fired multiple times. His team is not going well right now...is it because he forgot how to coach or is it just maybe something to do with personnel?

Hell Scotty Bowman was fired multiple times...must be because he is a bad coach.

How about Gallant? Hes been fired multiple times. Some want him in Calgary? Why? Because according to your logic he is a bad coach after being fired over and over....right?

Boudreau...fired 3 times now!! 3 times as bad a coach.

All I am saying is that this group has clearly proven a tough bunch to get any consistency out of and to blame Ward for all that is just lazy and unfair. Every guy who has had them has found out the same thing.

One the subject of coaching and the reasoning some are putting forward here, I wonder what the reaction would have been if the Flames had hired Craig Berube 2-3 years ago.

I’d be place a pretty confident bet the same lame criticism’s would have been trotted out by the same lot who seem to know better than Ward, or any of the other coaches the Flames have employed over the past 6 years.

It’s not Ward’s job to motivate the players. It’s his job to prepare them. It’s not Ward who can or can not make a five foot pass. it’s the players, not coaches or management, who deserve the criticism from last night’s embarrassment.