[PGT] Rangers 3 - Flames 1

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

You can say Bennett is misused all you want. Fact is, when he's on the ice, he shows absolutely no flashes of anything.

Stupid junior toe drag plays, penalties in the offensive zone, shoot first mentality and just general bone-head hockey. Comparing him and Backlund is apples and oranges.

That's coaching.

[Locke]

It was quite charitable of the Flames to lose the Rangers' farm team. Help them build their confidence a little and maybe land a couple of them some NHL contracts for next season.

I think I saw Gulutzan on his iPad applying to be an equipment manager for the Rangers next season.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Red

Oh he got a coaching degree? I guess us that don't should log off. Shut cpuck off cause only the two of you can have a valid opinion.

What an ignorant take you have.

You call someone out on their qualifications. Which he literally does have.

I asked if you do.

You clearly do not, which is perfectly OK as 99.9% of us cannot claim the same experience.

Yes everyone can have an opinion, including him (see how that goes?)...doesn't make it correct or even in the ballpark of correct. However, it's folly to suggest some are not much more likely to be backed up with their real life experience vs an opinion from watching games on TV and simply being a fan of any particular team.

And I am the ignorant one?

Mirror time dude.

[Red]

Originally Posted by transplant99

You call someone out on their qualifications. Which he literally does have.

I asked if you do.

You clearly do not, which is perfectly OK as 99.9% of us cannot claim the same experience.

Yes everyone can have an opinion, including him (see how that goes?)...doesn't make it correct or even in the ballpark of correct. However, it's folly to suggest some are not much more likely to be backed up with their real life experience vs an opinion from watching games on TV and simply being a fan of any particular team.

And I am the ignorant one?

Mirror time dude.

Hmm. I didn't call him out on his qualifications. I made a point about coaches managing players ice time. Which is quite routine. I had no idea he had any credentials not that it matters because GG has them too and it would be hard to call him unquestionably correct all the time.

You insinuated that I couldn't be correct because I don't have coaching credentials or whatever it is that he has.

I, the casual fan am still searching for an answer why in the last 5 minutes of pretty much the most important period of this season when down by 2 goals we end up with Glass and Shore on the ice.

Johnny was gassed so maybe l poor ice time management of one player. But whatever, it happens. But what about the other 9 players?

It is indefensible IMO.

[GeoRock]

On the way to the game last night the guys on The Fan were saying our response after Colorado loss could define the season, and that a loss to the Rangers would destroy the fan hopefuls. The Rangers early goal killed all energy from the crowd on what should have been a fun Friday night game, it was awful. Anyone else at the game hear the resounding sigh of disappointment when the buzzer went? I think season ticket holders are quite frustrated. Boring ass game so much so that you could hear the players yelling to each other on the ice. Really disappointing entertainment value on what I hoped would be a quality opportunity to light it up. At least my pocket dog was good, extra mustard is where it's at. Bright side.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Magnum PEI

Brodie has been spectacularly awful these last three games. I think he's been on the ice for every 5-on-5 goal against, except the Hayes goal in the first tonight.

Was at the game, was there ever any evidence the puck went completely over the line on the second goal?

Brodie has been spectacularly awful for two years, he absolutely needs to be gone this off season. I am not saying he can't rebound somewhere else but he has cost us multiple games and is a bonehead in his own zone with us.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Red

Hmm. I didn't call him out on his qualifications. I made a point about coaches managing players ice time. Which is quite routine. I had no idea he had any credentials not that it matters because GG has them too and it would be hard to call him unquestionably correct all the time.

You insinuated that I couldn't be correct because I don't have coaching credentials or whatever it is that he has.

I, the casual fan am still searching for an answer why in the last 5 minutes of pretty much the most important period of this season when down by 2 goals we end up with Glass and Shore on the ice.

Johnny was gassed so maybe l poor ice time management of one player. But whatever, it happens. But what about the other 9 players?

It is indefensible IMO.

All very fair points.

Some of your questions were addressed by him though...apparently those answers were not good enough for some. Again, that's fine but it behooves me how some dismiss those just because it doesn't fit a particular view or narrative. You are arguing with someone who has actually been there and done that.

The ice time thing is one of them. The bench was shortened as time started becoming a factor, but you cant play 2 lines for an entire period without absolutely putting those players at great risk for injury.

Everyone is frustrated at the lack of success this team is incurring and calls for changes aren't just going to be heard, they will be acted upon at some point. Right now though, the coach only has the players he has been given to work with, that much is undeniable.

Again, everyone is frustrated watching this season go down the crapper. That should not preclude level headed discussion and explanation as to why though. At least IMO. Yet it is just viotrol and hyperbole and outright BS through a vast majority of the threads that makes it impossible to really have any true discussion/explanation.

I guess I am ranting now too. Heh.

Anyways, it's all good. You have every right to believe what you wish, as everyone does.

[868904]

I don't see the need for waiting for the Summer to hire a new coach.

The roster is fine, everyone, fans, media, experts thought this was a contending roster at the beginning of the season.

Many posters here have seen a poor system going back to last year. These are good players and a good roster, it is underperforming.

The team is young and needs a general, a leader, no disrespect to Giordano. They need a leader who has done it all before, someone who can flash his Stanley Cup ring around and tell the players "Don't fret, don't panic, I got this".

This team needs a motivator and a leader, that is Darryl Sutter.

You don't need to wait for the Summer. Vigneault is not a better coach than Sutter, Sutter has out coached him at every opportunity. Quenville is on par with Sutter, but he may not be available and it's not always best to hire a guy who just recently got fired, sometimes coaches need a little time off to reflect, which is what Sutter has.'

Other than Vigneault and Quenneville, there are only two other coaches who have a better or equal resume than Sutter, and they are Sullivan and Babcock, and they won't be available.

There's no reason to wait anymore, just fire GG and bring in Sutter and see if he can create a late season miracle' and if not, then at least give Sutter a running start for next season. Tre over analyzed the coaching hire with GG, he needs to just do the simple thing and hire the best coach available.

It was obvious to so many that GG is not a good coach. He's a strategist, a thinker, but he's not a leader. To use his term, he's never been "in the guts of the game", so he can't deal with NHL situations. He doesn't understand momentum and he doesn't know how to motivate players or get them focused. These are all things that Sutter excels at.

There's nothing more to think about or analyze Tre, just fire GG already and hire Sutter.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by GeoRock

On the way to the game last night the guys on The Fan were saying our response after Colorado loss could define the season, and that a loss to the Rangers would destroy the fan hopefuls. The Rangers early goal killed all energy from the crowd on what should have been a fun Friday night game, it was awful. Anyone else at the game hear the resounding sigh of disappointment when the buzzer went? I think season ticket holders are quite frustrated. Boring ass game so much so that you could hear the players yelling to each other on the ice. Really disappointing entertainment value on what I hoped would be a quality opportunity to light it up. At least my pocket dog was good, extra mustard is where it's at. Bright side.

Yup. I was expecting boos but I don't think the fans even have that in them right now. The Flames are a dull organization on every single level.

I just don't understand how a team with some of the best young players its had for years, including one of the most skilled players in the NHL in Gaudreau, can be so snooze inducing.

I've been restraining from giving Treliving too much criticism because he seems like a generally smart GM, but I can't stand the product the Flames have become, and he is the guy ultimately accountable for it. He chose the coaching staff, he made the roster moves. All adds up to completely average and uninteresting, not to mention unsuccessful.

[Otto-matic]

Ever since the Bye Week they’re two games below .500.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by 868904

I don't see the need for waiting for the Summer to hire a new coach.

The roster is fine, everyone, fans, media, experts thought this was a contending roster at the beginning of the season.

Many posters here have seen a poor system going back to last year. These are good players and a good roster, it is underperforming.

The team is young and needs a general, a leader, no disrespect to Giordano. They need a leader who has done it all before, someone who can flash his Stanley Cup ring around and tell the players "Don't fret, don't panic, I got this".

This team needs a motivator and a leader, that is Darryl Sutter.

You don't need to wait for the Summer. Vigneault is not a better coach than Sutter, Sutter has out coached him at every opportunity. Quenville is on par with Sutter, but he may not be available and it's not always best to hire a guy who just recently got fired, sometimes coaches need a little time off to reflect, which is what Sutter has.'

Other than Vigneault and Quenneville, there are only two other coaches who have a better or equal resume than Sutter, and they are Sullivan and Babcock, and they won't be available.

There's no reason to wait anymore, just fire GG and bring in Sutter and see if he can create a late season miracle' and if not, then at least give Sutter a running start for next season. Tre over analyzed the coaching hire with GG, he needs to just do the simple thing and hire the best coach available.

It was obvious to so many that GG is not a good coach. He's a strategist, a thinker, but he's not a leader. To use his term, he's never been "in the guts of the game", so he can't deal with NHL situations. He doesn't understand momentum and he doesn't know how to motivate players or get them focused. These are all things that Sutter excels at.

There's nothing more to think about or analyze Tre, just fire GG already and hire Sutter.

I think its a real possibility that he doesn't want to come back to the organization that already fired him.

[Torchdemall]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Brodie has been spectacularly awful for two years, he absolutely needs to be gone this off season. I am not saying he can't rebound somewhere else but he has cost us multiple games and is a bonehead in his own zone with us.

He has been the most consistently awful player on the ice this year for sure. It's bad when you are amazed that he actually has a decent game, can't say as I've seen him have a "great" one all this year. It's hard to imagine how different he looked just a number of years ago.

What I have really noticed too with all the defense, but least of all Gio, and worst of all him is when they have the puck they just get mired down in decision making and I begin to hear the jeopardy theme song playing in my head as I watch the opposing players close in to cut off whatever chance there was for a shot or a pass slip away.

He's just not thinking and reacting properly to the game, you have to be a step ahead and know what your going to be doing before a puck arrives, or before a player begins to fly the zone, or the puck goes loose, and that stuff should be instinctively drilled into him by now through drills and just playing hockey for all his life now, if he doesn't automatically know what to do at this stage of the year then I have to blame the coaching for that, he's all turned around inside it seems.

So for that reason I would have to say that as much as I'm pissed at his play I'd honestly still rather see him get a chance under a different coach next year because he has shown he can play, and we'll get less for him then we should on the heels of a year like this from him. But if we aren't changing coaching staff, then yeah if he's not getting it after a year or 2 he likely never will and should see a change of scenery, where I am sure he will flourish, as always seems the case.

He has been for me one of the biggest disappointments this year for a veteran who should have anchored our 2nd pairing and be the rock for the new guys put with him, but he's been the liability.

I want to like the guy I have so many found memories of his play and all, but man he's just not played well all year, muffin shots, terrible decisions, not even skating as well as he can imo, getting pylon'd way to regularly.

This whole team and its jekyl and hyde nature has been hard to fathom this year.

[868904]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I think its a real possibility that he doesn't want to come back to the organization that already fired him.

Then it's perfect to bring in Tippett. That guy would probably take an interim position till the end of the season.

Even Tippett has a better resume than GG. At least he's won an IHL championship and a Jack Adams.

Don't know how another coach will do, that is uncertain.

What is certain, is GG is not the right coach for this team.

[Duffalufagus]

Originally Posted by 868904

I don't see the need for waiting for the Summer to hire a new coach.

The roster is fine, everyone, fans, media, experts thought this was a contending roster at the beginning of the season.

Many posters here have seen a poor system going back to last year. These are good players and a good roster, it is underperforming.

The team is young and needs a general, a leader, no disrespect to Giordano. They need a leader who has done it all before, someone who can flash his Stanley Cup ring around and tell the players "Don't fret, don't panic, I got this".

This team needs a motivator and a leader, that is Darryl Sutter.

You don't need to wait for the Summer. Vigneault is not a better coach than Sutter, Sutter has out coached him at every opportunity. Quenville is on par with Sutter, but he may not be available and it's not always best to hire a guy who just recently got fired, sometimes coaches need a little time off to reflect, which is what Sutter has.'

Other than Vigneault and Quenneville, there are only two other coaches who have a better or equal resume than Sutter, and they are Sullivan and Babcock, and they won't be available.

There's no reason to wait anymore, just fire GG and bring in Sutter and see if he can create a late season miracle' and if not, then at least give Sutter a running start for next season. Tre over analyzed the coaching hire with GG, he needs to just do the simple thing and hire the best coach available.

It was obvious to so many that GG is not a good coach. He's a strategist, a thinker, but he's not a leader. To use his term, he's never been "in the guts of the game", so he can't deal with NHL situations. He doesn't understand momentum and he doesn't know how to motivate players or get them focused. These are all things that Sutter excels at.

There's nothing more to think about or analyze Tre, just fire GG already and hire Sutter.

The big assumption in your post is that the expectations for the roster were realistic. We were wrong. This team lacks serious depth and just isn’t very good. GG is gone in the offseason. But serious roster moves also need to be made before this team is a real contender.

[The Fonz]

For the love of God, lets not bring in an interim coach. We're 16 games away from having our pick of the litter... Can't be doing anything that may risk that opportunity.

If an interim coach comes in and goes 10-6-0 down the stretch, there will be a feeling of obligation to give him the job going forward.

[UKflames]

My goodness people have short memories, can we stop with the "Bring back Sutter" calls, it was a cluster f$8k at the end of his time and a second time around wouldn't be any better.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Mike F

Agree with pretty much everything you're saying in this thread, except the bolded: Flames had started winning before the stick toss (which was initiated by a lazy practice after a win). They won a few more after that, then slumped. I still maintain that the stick toss did little to nothing, as evidenced by players laughing it off in interviews later that day.

As for this game, I briefly thought about writing another post with my usual critiques about personnel decisions, strategy (still no one-timers on the 1st PP), etc., etc., but I just can't be bothered. Apathy has set in. I hope the Flames win, but can't get any emotional investment any more.

I have looked at that video of the stick toss many times and as far as I am concerned, that whole thing is contrived by GG. I never saw true emotion and I think the media made it out to be more than it actually was.

It is almost like GG studied a book on how to do it. Skate around in a few circles, drop the F bomb numerous times, toss a stick. He never even raised his voice all that much. I just don't think anything like that is in GG's psyche and I think it was more a reaction to kn owing his job was on the line.

...but that is just one of many problems he exhibits.

As far as I am concerned, the players gave up on GG and his system at least a year ago. They have no confidence in the system.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by 868904

I don't see the need for waiting for the Summer to hire a new coach.

I agree. If the Flames decide the season is likely over, they could use the final 16 games to evaluate the players. Because like many, I don't think the last two years are indicative of what we have.
Also, why are we playing a 34 year old guy in Glass, with absolutely no long term future with this team at the expense of one of they young guys who do?
Honestly, some of the decisions this organization is making are absolutely mind boggling.

[868904]

Originally Posted by UKflames

My goodness people have short memories, can we stop with the "Bring back Sutter" calls, it was a cluster f$8k at the end of his time and a second time around wouldn't be any better.

Your memory isn't short it's just not good. No one is calling for Sutter to come back as GM. We want him back as coach, you know, the thing he is good at? The thing he did while winning two Stanley Cups after he left here.

Sutter was a good coach here in Calgary, he was not a good gm, and his worst move as GM was firing himself as coach.

[Galakanokis]

Isn't LA's goal scoring way up this compared to last year? Kopitar, Brown and others having way better years than they did under Sutter? Coaching can absolutely have an impact on a players performance. Majority of the players are not going anywhere so you need to change something up.

I still believe the glut of defensemen will be used to grab a young, up and coming winger.