One really has to question our development program when kids like Sven come in riding all the promise in the world, and then hit a wall once they turn pro. It might explain why the Flames haven't been able to draft a top 6 quality player in 20 years. Just maybe.
No, no, no, it's not the system, it's all of the players, who were all busts.
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About half of first rounders bust. It's not necessarily evidence of mishandling of prospects. Pure skill players like Baertschi bust more frequently because they need to become consistent scorers in order to make it in the NHL.
Got a Flames military appreciation cap signed by Baertschi for Christmas, and a pic of my husband with him at the military appreciation night. Good Christmas gift and hope that Baertschi can get his confidence back.
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Sven has played the 11th most NHL games of all players drafted in 2011. He has scored the 10th most goals; the 9th most assists; and 9th most points of his draft class.
On all of those lists, the only players ahead of him who were drafted below him are Saad and Shaw (who are massive outliers, even for the Hawks -- Saad was Chicago's 4th pick of the draft, and Shaw was their 8th).
On a per game basis, he's 10th in goals; 4th in assists; and 7th in points from his draft class.
It might be just a tad early to call him a bust.
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One really has to question our development program when kids like Sven come in riding all the promise in the world, and then hit a wall once they turn pro. It might explain why the Flames haven't been able to draft a top 6 quality player in 20 years. Just maybe.
For what it's worth, that's exactly the problem identified by Craig Button (2 years ago, on the evening talk show on 77), in documenting how the Flames had mishandled Backlund's development - of course, before Backlund's time, Button would have been part of the problem...
One really has to question our development program when kids like Sven come in riding all the promise in the world, and then hit a wall once they turn pro. It might explain why the Flames haven't been able to draft a top 6 quality player in 20 years. Just maybe.
Or it might explain why 21 year old players often need some time to develop before we worry about the whole development system.
Under Sutter Phaneuf was the only top 10 pick and he developed into a Norris trophy finalist, a top minute defender and top 10 defense scorer. Mikael Backlund developed into about what can be expected from a 24th overall pick. Prust is better than what the average 3rd rounder is, Boyd decent for a 3rd rounder, Brett Sutter for a 6th rounder did about as much as you can expect, Bouma and Brodie have developed nicely especially considering where they were picked. Ortio seems to be developing well for a 6th rounder and Reinhart for a 3rd could work out well also.
Sure some big misses with 1st and 2nds (Chucko, Pelech, Wahl) but not sure which one of those you would blame on development and which ones are just bad picks that every team has (Boston, Detroit, Chicago included).
The real problem the Flames have had in terms of prospects/young guys is a lack of picks (especially high picks) so that they need to hit on the few that they have. Much easier to trump up the Hawks drafting when you have Saad to ignore the potential misses with the 5 other 2nd round picks they had that year and the year before.
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For what it's worth, that's exactly the problem identified by Craig Button (2 years ago, on the evening talk show on 77), in documenting how the Flames had mishandled Backlund's development - of course, before Backlund's time, Button would have been part of the problem...
What's wrong with Backlund's development other than some fans over rating his potential?
He was drafted 24th overall has played the 20th most games and is likely around the 20th best player from his draft class.
He never showed the offensive potential to be a top 6 guy so not sure how it is the Flames fault that hasn't developed so far in his pro career.
If anything the Flames took a very active role in helping Backlund's development putting him in situations that gave him the best opportunity (ie moving him to Kelowna, not rushing him to NHL, giving him chances on the top line with Iggy and Tanguay).
What exactly did the great and wise Craig Button take issue with in terms of Backlund's development? How exactly would he have developed him better?
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What's wrong with Backlund's development other than some fans over rating his potential?
He was drafted 24th overall has played the 20th most games and is likely around the 20th best player from his draft class.
He never showed the offensive potential to be a top 6 guy so not sure how it is the Flames fault that hasn't developed so far in his pro career.
If anything the Flames took a very active role in helping Backlund's development putting him in situations that gave him the best opportunity (ie moving him to Kelowna, not rushing him to NHL, giving him chances on the top line with Iggy and Tanguay).
What exactly did the great and wise Craig Button take issue with in terms of Backlund's development? How exactly would he have developed him better?
Not saying I agree with him, but he highlighted the move to Kelowna and the handling in the year after that as undermining his confidence.
Not saying I agree with him, but he highlighted the move to Kelowna and the handling in the year after that as undermining his confidence.
I realize you are just the messenger didn't mean for that you be directed at you.
Seems like an odd thing to take issue with since Backlund was having well documented issues with his team in Sweden and seemed to have a better season once he came to Kelowna. It was a well-coached, winning team hard to see that as a bad thing for his development.
The year after he went to the AHL like most prospects would and got a shot at the NHL.
He thinks that would undermine his confidence? Doesn't make sense to me.
I realize you are just the messenger didn't mean for that you be directed at you.
Seems like an odd thing to take issue with since Backlund was having well documented issues with his team in Sweden and seemed to have a better season once he came to Kelowna. It was a well-coached, winning team hard to see that as a bad thing for his development.
The year after he went to the AHL like most prospects would and got a shot at the NHL.
He thinks that would undermine his confidence? Doesn't make sense to me.
Button felt they rushed him into the North American game, IIRC, and that another year in Sweden would have served him better
Jock Wilson and the other guy (Mark Steven?) are the two worst sports analysts in the whole province. Jock is a bitter old man who I believe got punted from the Flames radio broadcasts years ago. It is very rare that I can listen to Jock's crybaby rants.
Button felt they rushed him into the North American game, IIRC, and that another year in Sweden would have served him better
Maybe that's the reason he hasn't been offered another NHL GM's job since the Flames canned him.
From what I remember, Backlund was struggling in Sweden that season prior to the World Jrs and wasn't getting a lot of ice time, which is why Sutter convinced him to come over. Then, he went to Kelowna and had more than a point-per-game and helped lead the Rockets to the Memorial Cup, including being the top goal scorer through the WHL playoffs.
Whatever struggles he has had in the NHL, it's hard to blame them on bringing him over early.
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Kadri turned out fine, IMO Sven will be better. They are being handled the same way. I.e. having to earn their spots. Pure talent alone makes him a borderline NHLer even without playing very hard, if he adds hard work to that talent Sven will be a absolute stud.
Also, Backlund and Byron got tough love and seem to be doing OK.
Not sure what the panic is all about. Having Burke in charge means no more mixed signals. Work hard = play in the NHL.
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Sven has played the 11th most NHL games of all players drafted in 2011. He has scored the 10th most goals; the 9th most assists; and 9th most points of his draft class.
On all of those lists, the only players ahead of him who were drafted below him are Saad and Shaw (who are massive outliers, even for the Hawks -- Saad was Chicago's 4th pick of the draft, and Shaw was their 8th).
On a per game basis, he's 10th in goals; 4th in assists; and 7th in points from his draft class.
It might be just a tad early to call him a bust.
Saad is certainly not a massive outlier. Guy was ranked in the 20s on Mackenzie's list.
Button felt they rushed him into the North American game, IIRC, and that another year in Sweden would have served him better
I would argue bringing him to NA when they did is what saved his NHL career. He wasn't producing anything in a 2nd tier Swedish league, and was falling out with his coach.
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One really has to question our development program when kids like Sven come in riding all the promise in the world, and then hit a wall once they turn pro. It might explain why the Flames haven't been able to draft a top 6 quality player in 20 years. Just maybe.
Not really. Kids hit a wall in their development all the time. That's why sophomore slumps exist.
I do think drafting has to be separated from player development to some degree, although it's very hard to separate the two. There are players who require very little player development. All you have to do is draft them and give them lots of minutes and opportunities in the NHL or have their junior coach develop them. Other players require more guidance without which they never develop. Then it's about opportunities. Under Darryl, the question was whether our prospects' development were stalled due to a lack of opportunities. For a player like Sven, the question is whether the Flames rushed him.
Sven is a player who had clear strengths and flaws when he was drafted. Every draft guide would tell you that Sven is a goalscorer but needed to work on his compete level, physical play, and defensive play. All these things are things Burke called Sven out on. It's nothing new. The problem likely began when Sven was called up to the NHL as an emergency call up and scored 3 goals in 5 games. That gave Feaster and the coaching staff the expectation that Sven would be capable of immediately filling a top 6 role when those weaknesses, while seemingly having improved in juniors, may not have been improved enough to meet NHL standards. What management and the coaching staff should have done was to identify Sven's weaknesses and get him to address those weak aspects of his game. Tell him that they don't care how many goals Sven scores as long as he demonstrates a consistent compete level and steady defensive play. Get him to learn how to compete on a nightly basis and play in all three zones and tell him the scoring will come.
If you look at teams like Columbus and Florida and how they royally screwed the development of their forwards under previous regimes it's clear that rushing top 6 prospects and having them play significant roles despite the fact that other aspects of the games were lacking is generally a bad idea. Personally, I don't think it's too late for Sven. His weaknesses are aspects Sven can easily correct if he's willing to put in the work.
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Wonder how his teammates in Abby feel with him saying the last thing he wanted was to end up there. Good to see things finally starting to go his way though
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