Calgary offers picks 6, 22, 28 for the first overall: no dice

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

I dunno. Looking back at the drafts so far I think I'm taking the 3 picks over the top pick. Obviously you would take the top pick over the 3 picks looking at most of them one on one, but the combination of picks over the years looks quite strong.

2003:
MA Fleury

Vs

Milan Michalek
MA Pouliot
Corey Perry

Have to go with the 3 vs A shaky #1

2004
Ovechkin

Vs

Al Montoya Smid drafted right after (9th)
Lukas Kapers (16 games) Meszaros (500+ drafted 23rd)
Mark Fistric

Still takin Ovi here though, obviously

2005
Crosby

Vs

Brule
Lashoff
Niskanen

Crosby Obviously

2006
Erik Johnson

Vs.

Brassard
Giroux
Foligno

A great combination of forwards vs. Erik Johnson Here definitely going with the 3

2007
Patrick Kane

Vs

Gagner
Pacioretty
Petrecki (1 game)

With a player like Subban taken in the 2nd the potential is there to take the 3 vs 1 here but u have to go with Kane in this situation.

2008
Stamkos

Vs

Filatov
Eberle
Tikhonov

Again if some better picks are made there is potential to desire the 3 vs 1 but Stamkos is who you go with obviously.

2009
Tavares

Vs.

Ekman-Larrson
Jordan Schroeder
Dylan Olsen, guys like O'Rielly and Clifford taken soon after

Again with the right drafting the 3 vs 1 could be more desirable, going with Tavares though based on the picks.

2010
Taylor Hall

Vs

Brett Connolly
Jarred Tinordi
Charlie Coyle

If the 6th and 28th picks continue to develop and Tinordi emerges I might take the combination of picks vs Hall here.

2011
RNH

Vs

Zibanejad
Tyler Biggs
Zach Phillips

Have to wait and see right now but after his year and the playoff series against Montreal Zibanejad is competitive against RNH IMO.

2012
Yakupov

Vs.

Hampus Lindholm
Olli Maatta
Brady Skeji

Obviously Yakupov right now but like the last 2 it's a wait and see.

In a shallow draft I would go for the top pick every time. In a very deep draft I would go with the three. This is supposed to be a very deep draft. Possibly 2003 calibre.

[3thirty]

I'm sure feaster has offered the same deal to Florida, but only if mackinnon is available after Colorado picks, who knows if they bite though.
I'm sure there are a few first round deals that have been made already involving teams that won't announce it until the draft.

[PlayfulGenius]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

I dunno. Looking back at the drafts so far I think I'm taking the 3 picks over the top pick. Obviously you would take the top pick over the 3 picks looking at most of them one on one, but the combination of picks over the years looks quite strong.

The 3 most recent drafts could go either way...perhaps that speaks to weaker drafts??? ...not sure, perhaps every year would have looked that way if analyzed shortly afterward.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Another way to spin that is that three first-overall-picks have been Stanley Cup winners in the past 10 years. And this more accurately factors into consideration the much greater importance of the draft in the last decade, the way the game has changed since 2004, and the fact that the most recent first-overall-picks will not make much of an immediate impact. To put it another way, that's 3/5 top-picks between 2003–2007.

Sorry, but my money is on Tavares, Stamkos, and any other #1 pick not playing for the Edmonton Oilers becoming parts of championship teams at some point over the next decade.

Using this theory Edmonton is assured of a dynasty. I don't believe that by being a first overall pick that you are destined for greatness, for the individual player or the team. Yeah, the Penguins won the cup because of Crosby and Malkin. One is a generational talent and the other is a superstar talent. Chicago is a completely different story. The Hawks won because of the work by Toews (3rd), Seabrook (14th), Keith (54th, after Anton Babchuk at 21st), Byfuglein (245th!), Hjalmarsson (108th), Bolland (32nd), and Brower (214th!), moreso than Kane (1st overall). As a matter of fact, all of those players were drafted before the Hawks drafted Patrick Kane, so the theory you need to have that 1st overall pick to be headed toward a championship seems flawed. You need depth and you need quality. Three first round picks offers opportunity to get depth and quality in one fair swoop. The top draft pick will come. Use the picks they have to begin to build quality. Who knows? They may draft the next Corey Perry at 28th just like the Ducks did.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I think the problem is a lot of folks here have looked at the draft profiles and are projecting our 22 and 28 picks to develop to their max potential. But that rarely happens - not for both of them. One of those picks will likely end up a fringe NHLer, or a complete bust.

So it's not MacKinnon vs three front-line NHLers. It's likely MacKinnon vs a 2nd line center + an average roster player. Which is why the Avs said no thanks.

I fully agree. To add to it there is no guarantee that the flames pick at 22 and 28. For all we know Feaster might trade one of the picks for a young 2nd line player. With the other pick they might take Fucale. To many variables that could happen with the latter picks.

[PlayfulGenius]

Ideally, the players that need longer to develop would be drafted earlier. In a perfect world, CGY drafts their depth players and Top D this year and next, then gets their Franchise C the following year when he can step right in and the team begins their ascent!!

Obviously, there are far too many variables for any team to expect to pull that off. Perhaps it's best to assume they may never get a chance at another Mackinnon, so best to make the attempt now and worry about be other pieces later???

It's a toughie... I think my focus would be to keep the 3 picks and use roster players to collect more Top 60 picks, or to upgrade the 3 1st rounders.

[Poe969]

Personally, I think it's more than just getting the best player in the draft. I think it's about getting the #1 pick for the franchise. This team has never had a #1 pick and after trading the franchise player, they need to do something to show the fans, the rest of the league and the players that they're moving in the right direction. Feaster just admited that this is indeed a rebuild and the best way to rebuild is to do it with the best player available. Even if MacKinnon doesn't turn out to be the BEST player, getting him would show that the Flames WANT to get the best player and are willling to do anything and everything in their power to do so. As for keeping the 3 later picks, there is a chance that 2/3 don't even turn into NHL players so saying they all could is moot. This team needs a star. This team needs a #1 center they can build around and when you're building a team around a player you want to make sure that that player is the best player avialable. MacKinnon would be more than just a player if we got him, he'd be the sign that this team is going to be good and get better. When bad teams get great players, they improve. Tampa improved a lot when they got Stamkos, the islanders are building a good team around Tavares, the oilers suck, Kane might have been the player to push the Hawks over the edge.

I just think that if you get a chance to get the best player there is, you give anything and everything you can to get that player.

[PlayfulGenius]

What if Feaster pulled a Snow and offered up all 9 picks for Mackinnon???

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

Garth Snow offered every pick the Islanders had in last years draft for a chance to draft Yakupov.

And now, in retrospect, wasn't that one of the most ridiculous things you've ever heard? Especially when the Islanders got Griffen Reinhart at their pick! I wish people would not get wrapped up so tightly in the hype over the draft. There are so many busts or under performers that it is best to have the multiple picks than rolling the dice on just one player.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by GGG

The other thing with this is the only years you wouldnt trage 6,22,28 for 1 were years a goalie or a defensemen were drafted 1st overall.

All drafts are not equal.

In 1999 .... The Sedin year... There were basically no 17 year olds that were n the top 3 players on their Junior team. Kris Beech .. drafted 7th overall was a distant 4th in Hitman scoring. Taylor Pyatt was 4th in Sudbury wolves scoring and was picked 8th.

This year players that will be available for picks 22-28 are in the top 2 or three players as 17 year olds on their junior teams.

Hartman 2nd
Erne 1st
Zykov 2nd
Petan 1st


This year there are no reaches to the BCHL or US High Schools or the USHJL. There are more legitimate 17 year old playing in the CHL, well since 2003.

Last year the Centre picked right before Jankowski was picked #21 was Laughton who was 6th in his team scoring.

for the #6 pick Monahan was the dominate player on his team... as a 16 year old he was 3rd behind Toffolli who ended up being the AHL rookie of the year and a regular for thre Kings in the playoffs.

In 2003 the best player picked was Eric Staal.... He went 2nd overall.

It would not be inconceivable that the #6 22 and 28 picks could have been Ryan Suter (#7), Kessler (#23) or Richards (#24) and Corey Perry (#28).


Of course Colorado is going to turn down the offer from the Flames. Although they aren't as public as Burke was I am surprised they would even talk to Feaster after he messed up RFA O'Rielly for them.

As well if they are actually thinking about moving the first they are going to wait to see what offers are available on draft day.

On Draft day Feaster might throw in Baertschi and next years first as well.

Feaster has shown a proclivity to go all in when holding a bad hand.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

On Draft day Feaster might throw in Baertschi and next years first as well.

And the Flames become the biggest laughing stock around. I can't imagine a dumber idea. Five first round picks, including a possible first overall next season, for the honor to draft one player, when there is no consensus number one pick in the draft? Worst example of asset management ever. That move would make Mike Milbury look competent.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Don't know about that, it's just that MacKinnon is a can't miss prospect and the 22 and 28 are assets to be used.

I heard that Buffalo is offering Miller, Grigorenko, and their 1st (8th) to the Avs which is much much better than the Flames 3 picks.

It's a bidding war. The Flames 1st next year or a top young player Backlund/Baetschi/Gaudreau must be in play or walk away.

Wow, to be honest, if Buffalo is offering that, I think that sets Colorado up much better than just having Jones. It gives them a real starting goaltender and they could still pick up a solid d-man with the 8th. Grigorenko is just the icing on the cake. I'd do it if I were Colorado.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by kehatch

In a shallow draft I would go for the top pick every time. In a very deep draft I would go with the three. This is supposed to be a very deep draft. Possibly 2003 calibre.

I think that's the key...

If this draft is as good as we're lead to believe, the 3 is better than the 1.

[Locke]

I didnt read the whole thread, I apologize:

They're asking the wrong team.

If Colorado has any sense they're taking Jones, Feaster should be throwing that offer at Florida.

[BurningSteel]

Id make the same pitch for 2nd overall

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by fleury

Wow, to be honest, if Buffalo is offering that, I think that sets Colorado up much better than just having Jones. It gives them a real starting goaltender and they could still pick up a solid d-man with the 8th. Grigorenko is just the icing on the cake. I'd do it if I were Colorado.

Miller is not the goalie he was in 2010.

If the Flames wanted his 6.25 cap hit going into his UFA year I imagine that Buffalo would jump on the 28th pick overall.

So compared to the Flames offer... #8 from this year and #12 from last year as opposed to #6 and #22 from this year.

At #8 Monahan for certain and even Lindholm might be gone.


The Flames goalie situation is not any more solid than The Av's and I would not trade the Flames 3 picks for the Buffalo offer.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Miller is not the goalie he was in 2010.

I call b.s. He is not really old and it isn't like he forgot suddenly how to play goal. The defense and team in front of him is a flaming bag of poo. Miller is still a top tier goalie and a huge upgrade over Varlamov.

[sun]

Originally Posted by ricosuave

This. I much prefer the days of Darryl Sutter and things were kept on the down low. How does stuff like this spill out?

Keep yer damn mouth shut, Jay!

Is it a possibility that maybe the info was intentionally leaked? Maybe this offer was originally made to FLA and they are humming and hawing about it, so Feaster leaked this to make it seem like they have options other than FLA and that they should take it while they can? Maybe I'm just conspiracy theory-ing it up because I don't like the idea of a leak in the organization.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Colorado would have taken the deal if it was 6, Sven and Gio i bet.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

Colorado would have taken the deal if it was 6, Sven and Gio i bet.

If Detroit had not let in those 2 stinker goals and the flames were drafting 3rd, i bet the Av's would have made the trade down to 3rd with only the 28th pick included, maybe even a roster player instead. Roy has said a couple of times that he wants one of the big 3. I think the only teams they will listen to are Florida and Tampa.