2012-2013 Toronto Blue Jays Off Season Thread - Page 17 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

dustyanddaflames · 11-13-2012, 05:03 PM

PS - get bent Farrel

TitovFTW · 11-13-2012, 05:03 PM

Jeff Mathis...take Jeff Mathis!

TitovFTW · 11-13-2012, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

It was the type of deal that AA had to make eventually. Having a top ranked prospect system is fun for the fans and better than having crap but it often doesn't result in wins on the field.

With the money Rogers has good (for Blue Jay fans) to see them willing to take on a lot of salary to get some talent at the big league level.

It doesn't often result in wins on the field? yes that's exactly what it does. Athletics, Giants, Rays, Reds all are built on young talent they drafted. Not saying this trade isn't smart or that stock piling young talent can serve a purpose just like this, but to say having a top ranked prospect system often doesn't result in wins on the field is insane.

VERVE · 11-13-2012, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fleury

I like Arencibia, because he was a good guy, but we have a near future replacement. Gose looks like a great guy to have in your OF. With him there The Jays would have the best defensive OF in the league, so it would really suck losing him. Not sure how I feel about Gose being included.

I agree. Gose is a great base stealing threat and speed in OF. With talented Travis D'Arnaud on the farm, Arencibia could be traded (hopefully) instead of Gose.

dustyanddaflames · 11-13-2012, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitovFTW

It doesn't often result in wins on the field? yes that's exactly what it does. Athletics, Giants, Rays, Reds all are built on young talent they drafted. Not saying this trade isn't smart or that stock piling young talent can serve a purpose just like this, but to say having a top ranked prospect system often doesn't result in wins on the field is insane.

To be fair, he did say often...

moon · 11-13-2012, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitovFTW

It doesn't often result in wins on the field? yes that's exactly what it does. Athletics, Giants, Rays, Reds all are built on young talent they drafted. Not saying this trade isn't smart or that stock piling young talent can serve a purpose just like this, but to say having a top ranked prospect system often doesn't result in wins on the field is insane.

5 years ago the Red Sox had a top 3 system how does that look now? The Royals have had a top ranked for for how long now and yet to produce wins.

Many of the teams mentioned have young guys but not always top ranked systems and they have a total of 2 WS titles from one team.

How have the Phillies, Cards, Yankees, Tigers systems been ranked in the last 10 years? Those teams have all done okay over that time period.

I am not saying that you can't win with a top ranked farm system but that it isn't a guarantee and in baseball especially where it is tough to project young guys future.

AA did a good job of building a high ranking system and then using some of those guys to get some talent. At this point in the Jays franchise I think that makes more sense then holding on to all the young guys and hoping they all come through.

Caged Great · 11-13-2012, 05:14 PM

At the end of the day you need to cash some of the prospect chips that you've built up and turn them into legit players. It's never fun, but we have such a huge amount of depth that even losing Alvarez, Hechavarria, Marisnick, and Nicolino, we still have a boat load of great players.

Joborule · 11-13-2012, 05:15 PM

Crazy deal for Jays. Consensus appears very one sided.

Joborule · 11-13-2012, 05:27 PM

So I understand this a big trade, but don't have that great of a grasp. What's the equivalent of this deal in hockey terms?

jschick88 · 11-13-2012, 05:27 PM

Jim Bowden ESPN Baseball Analyst
https://twitter.com/JimBowdenESPNxm

Blue Jays new lineup: Reyes SS Bonifacio 2B Bautista RF Encarnacion 1B Lawrie 3B Rasmus CF D'Arnaud C Lind DH Arencibia C #contender

TitovFTW · 11-13-2012, 05:28 PM

Now some very hush hush talk about MLB blocking this trade, only people thinking out loud so far, nothing of substance, but Buster Onley talked about MLB taking a look at this due to the long term ramifications of the Miami market. That being said, I don't see anything that's happened before that would make us think it would be.

jschick88 · 11-13-2012, 05:29 PM

Jon Morosi:

So, why did Alex Anthopoulos wait to hire a manager? Perhaps because more candidates would have interest in working with THIS roster.
https://twitter.com/jonmorosi

d_phaneuf · 11-13-2012, 05:30 PM

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal
Asked official with one of clubs if he has any concern that commissioner might kill the deal. His response: "None at all."

dustyanddaflames · 11-13-2012, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitovFTW

Now some very hush hush talk about MLB blocking this trade, only people thinking out loud so far, nothing of substance, but Buster Onley talked about MLB taking a look at this due to the long term ramifications of the Miami market. That being said, I don't see anything that's happened before that would make us think it would be.

I'd be awfully disappointed if MLB blocks this trade, but allows the Dodgers to absolutely steal Gonzalez, Crawford and Beckett from the Red Sox (not that I wanted that vetoed either

)

TitovFTW · 11-13-2012, 05:34 PM

Let'snot forget ow important it is in the ever changing MLB landscape. The Yankees and Red Sox were able to have some incredibly high ranked prospects because of how flawed the MLB draft was and how you could buy prospects.

Also we must look at the difference between a good prospect pool and how it transfers to a team on the field. The Royals continue to struggle as they have zero pitching and no MLB talent to fill the holes.

While it is much easier to predict mlb proven talent, it comes at a much higher risk when you talk about guys falling off cliffs talent wise. A-Rod's contract now looks horrible. The good thing about stock piling young talent is you can afford one or two to flame out and they cost much less money.

As a Dodgers fan, they made a very similar trade this year but have a farm team with nothing in it. Granted they don't have to compete in the AL east, but it's a rarity for a team to be able to make a move of this magnitude and have a strong system still in place. I think this is exactly why you stock pile young talent,so you can use them as trade chips in a new MLB system where their value will go up even more.

TitovFTW · 11-13-2012, 05:36 PM

@Ken_Rosenthal Asked official with one of clubs if he has any concern that commissioner might kill the deal. His response: "None at all."

dustyanddaflames · 11-13-2012, 05:37 PM

Agreed Titov - it was a strong farm system that allowed the Jays to pull off such deal, but the best part of this... we still have a very strong farm system remaining.

howard_the_duck · 11-13-2012, 05:37 PM

Is there no catcher involved now? Not seeing JPA anywhere. There has got to be more to this...

TitovFTW · 11-13-2012, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dustyanddaflames

I'd be awfully disappointed if MLB blocks this trade, but allows the Dodgers to absolutely steal Gonzalez, Crawford and Beckett from the Red Sox (not that I wanted that vetoed either

)

The only difference is the Marlins payroll now stands somewhere at 10 million I think I read. Loria is such scum, he used the taxpayers money to build the park and now is just going to soak in all the money from last year. I could not be happier to see a franchise struggle then one run by him.

Caged Great · 11-13-2012, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Is there no catcher involved now? Not seeing JPA anywhere. There has got to be more to this...

I'm not sure either. There's already 10 players involved, maybe we might get it up to 12 or 13 by it's all done.