[Trade] Tkachuk (8 yrs x $9.5 mil) + `25 4th to FLA for Huberdeau, Weegar, Schwindt & `25 1st

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Pundits weren’t calling the trade a unicorn scenario. They were calling Tkachuk a unicorn player, and well before he announced he wasn’t going to sign a new contract with the Flames.

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I’ve never understood why people call Tkachuk a unicorn.

He does none of his own heavy lifting.

He will fight, but he’s not good at it.

He’ll hammer guys, but he’s not overly physical otherwise.

He’s a good, smart player.

He’s no Jarome Iginla. Iginla was a unicorn.

Nope, I love Tkachuk but he absolutely had a "media" stock in his value, as he made himself a **** disturber that got into Toronto media circles. That is gold in terms of value.

Not deriding who he is, as he's worth a lot in this league, but his media stock plus a crazy season that would be nearly impossible to replicate at the same time as he announces he won't re-sign in Calgary got us a ludicrous haul from Florida.

[jayswin]

You don't have to be 100% on the overrated or underrated train.

Love the player, think he got slightly overrated when it was clear he may be available, and love the return, but will cheer for him going forward.

I understand and appreciate that he both a) was working towards leaving Calgary ever since that 4 year deal he signed and b) decided to make a clear decision and announce it to the Flames when they could make a major trade with him, when he could have just waited until next season for a bidding war across the league.

He's an incredible talent that would have been a huge blow to the organization without a crazy trade like this. He also isn't a 100+ point, generational talent going forward either, imo.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by jayswin

He's an incredible talent that would have been a huge blow to the organization without a crazy trade like this. He also isn't a 100+ point, generational talent going forward either, imo.

That's the thing, I believe. To maximize his earnings, he needed to cash in right after the incredible season he just had. That wasn't happening unless the Flames cooperated, so everybody agreed to play ball.

So the Flames got a huge haul of assets, the Panthers got a long-term deal with a guy who fits the age of their core, and Tkachuk got the Brinks truck. Win-win-win.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

That's the thing, I believe. To maximize his earnings, he needed to cash in right after the incredible season he just had. That wasn't happening unless the Flames cooperated, so everybody agreed to play ball.

So the Flames got a huge haul of assets, the Panthers got a long-term deal with a guy who fits the age of their core, and Tkachuk got the Brinks truck. Win-win-win.

Yeah, that's fair Jay. I did frame it as Tkachuk helping us a year early, but absolutely there was likely a push on his end to sign a contract (that had him playing on a team of choice rather than the Flames) before he potentially has a mediocre season and loses millions on a contract next summer.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

That's the thing, I believe. To maximize his earnings, he needed to cash in right after the incredible season he just had. That wasn't happening unless the Flames cooperated, so everybody agreed to play ball.

So the Flames got a huge haul of assets, the Panthers got a long-term deal with a guy who fits the age of their core, and Tkachuk got the Brinks truck. Win-win-win.

Except they gave up their leading scorer by 30 points and 44 point dman

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Except they gave up their leading scorer by 30 points and their top scoring dman

Yeah, if both sign that is an insane haul for Calgary and nothing close to what we were reported to get otherwise. Could be the biggest trade in franchise history depending on what the team does in the next few years.

Top goalie, top coach, top left winger, amazing D core. Recipe for some serious success before Brad is even done putting the this shifted core together. I suspect we'll see a top 6 forward added along with a Weegar signing.

[dying4acup]

Major capspace in the next 2 off seasons. Next year the Flames could likely afford to add the best free agent on the market. The following year retain anybody they choose, and improve the team. All while improving the prospect base and ideally graduating a couple. Not a bad summers work.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Except they gave up their leading scorer by 30 points and 44 point dman

It's been suggested that the Panthers weren't expecting to be able to re-sign Huberdeau. If so, they were giving up their leading scorer for one year only, just as the Flames were giving up one year of Tkachuk. I think they were foolish to add Weegar to the deal, but it's clear that they valued one young core player over two older ones.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

It's been suggested that the Panthers weren't expecting to be able to re-sign Huberdeau. If so, they were giving up their leading scorer for one year only, just as the Flames were giving up one year of Tkachuk. I think they were foolish to add Weegar to the deal, but it's clear that they valued one young core player over two older ones.

I suppose...their new core is worse though IMO and they have spent so much draft capital I can't see it improving
Barkov is also 27 September 2nd

They might be okay longer but never as good as they could have been. They won the presidents trophy last season, seems like a poor decision to give up on it because of a playoff loss. Most teams fail a few times before it all comes together. Ask the Avs.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by dino7c

They might be okay longer but never as good as they could have been. They won the presidents trophy last season, seems like a poor decision to give up on it because of a playoff loss.

Oh, I agree with you.

I wonder if part of the plan isn't to extend their window long enough to build up some marketing momentum, instead of letting things fizzle out as they did after 1996. Maybe they think having Tkachuk there to run his mouth in the media for eight years will help put more bums on seats. If so, they could be right.

[dino7c]

I think the Panthers fell for the media narrative that Tkachuk is just below McDavid/Matthews

I'm not even trying to trash the guy just because he is gone but those comparisons are so ridiculous

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

It's been suggested that the Panthers weren't expecting to be able to re-sign Huberdeau. If so, they were giving up their leading scorer for one year only, just as the Flames were giving up one year of Tkachuk. I think they were foolish to add Weegar to the deal, but it's clear that they valued one young core player over two older ones.

Sorry. How does this work again?

Panthers not expecting to be able to re-sign a guy, when they trade him for another guy and then sign that guy for max term at a comparable amount?

Sounds confusing

[CliffFletcher]

Dom Luszczyszyn and other analysts started calling Tkachuk a unicorn last season because he was off-the-charts in their fancy stats evaluations, while he also brings a heavy physical game. The latter is exaggerated, and owing mainly to some high-profile incidents and the media circus Tkachuk whips up, rather than his day-to-day game (was Tkachuk even in the top five in hits per game for the Flames?). As for Dom’s advanced statistics, it’s worth keeping in mind that a couple seasons ago Dougie Hamilton was off the charts using that same model.

Tkachuk is a Top 10 winger in the game. And his personality, reputation, and style are marketing gold for the NHL and for the Panthers - who are desperate to increase the profile of the team in Miami. But he’s not - as some fancy stat pundits assert - one of the top 4 or 5 forwards in the game. And his reputation as a super-physical warrior is largely a myth spread by Eastern media who watch about four Flames games a season.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Any other last name and Matthew gets 80% less attention league wide.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I'm sure interpretations vary, but I've always taken unicorn to mean really, really unique - no obvious comparable immediately comes to mind - moreso than simply being an exceptional player.

Iginla/Shanahan/Neely/Keith Tkachuk/Tim Kerr/even Gordie Howe/Bobby Hull/etc - certainly there are some differences among them, but they feel like a very, very similar mould.


Tkachuk is pretty unique...Marchand seems like the closest comp in terms of a highly skilled pest who is very good defensively. Marchand is very small and one of the fastest skaters (Pat Verbeek? Theo Fleury?)...Tkachuk is above average size and glacial.

Rick Tocchet, Owen Nolan, maybe Gary Roberts come to mind, but all three feel much tougher/more physical than Tkachuk, and are moreso finishers without Tkachuk's creativity/playmaking. Maybe Scott Hartnell is closer?

A few other obvious unicorns for me:

Chara...Hedman is the only thing kinda close, but they've got a lot of differences

Datsyuk...elements of lots of different guys, but I can't really think of anyone who puts it all together like him.

I guess Gaudreau probably qualifies, too...he feels unique compared to most other small guys who were burners+snipers.

Of course a lot of the all-time greats qualify, too, but IMO that's a bit of a different conversation.

I agree with your assessment. The only real Unicorn that I see in the game today is Tom Wilson. I think this is what media in the east is obsessed with. A tough guy that can score and change the game. Tkachuk is not that...and quite honestly in the playoffs he has done more to take himself off his game than the other team.

At the high end, I see Tkachuk like a Raantanen at the high end. Never say never, but I think he will have a hard time repeating this season...not because he wasn't a contributing member of that line...but because that line had a near perfect blend that will be hard to replicate. Ironically...a line of Huberdeau-Barkov-Tkachuk would have been the closest in the NHL I could think of.

I liked the player as part of this core, but I stick with my initial assesment...if this was the deal available even before Tkachuk refused to sign...we should have taken it.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by tkflames

I agree with your assessment. The only real Unicorn that I see in the game today is Tom Wilson. I think this is what media in the east is obsessed with. A tough guy that can score and change the game. Tkachuk is not that...and quite honestly in the playoffs he has done more to take himself off his game than the other team.

At the high end, I see Tkachuk like a Raantanen at the high end. Never say never, but I think he will have a hard time repeating this season...not because he wasn't a contributing member of that line...but because that line had a near perfect blend that will be hard to replicate. Ironically...a line of Huberdeau-Barkov-Tkachuk would have been the closest in the NHL I could think of.

I liked the player as part of this core, but I stick with my initial assesment...if this was the deal available even before Tkachuk refused to sign...we should have taken it.

Florida scored 340 goals compared to 293 for the Flames
They have a powerful offense with a real 1C and 1D. It’s possible that Tkachuk can have another career year .

[Heavy Jack]

The thread title should now read as

[Trade] Tkachuk (8 yrs x $9.5 mil) + `25 4th to FLA for Huberdeau (8 yrs x 10.5 mill), Weegar, Schwindt & `25 1st

[Jiggy]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Dom Luszczyszyn and other analysts started calling Tkachuk a unicorn last season because he was off-the-charts in their fancy stats evaluations, while he also brings a heavy physical game. The latter is exaggerated, and owing mainly to some high-profile incidents and the media circus Tkachuk whips up, rather than his day-to-day game (was Tkachuk even in the top five in hits per game for the Flames?). As for Dom’s advanced statistics, it’s worth keeping in mind that a couple seasons ago Dougie Hamilton was off the charts using that same model.

Tkachuk is a Top 10 winger in the game. And his personality, reputation, and style are marketing gold for the NHL and for the Panthers - who are desperate to increase the profile of the team in Miami. But he’s not - as some fancy stat pundits assert - one of the top 4 or 5 forwards in the game. And his reputation as a super-physical warrior is largely a myth spread by Eastern media who watch about four Flames games a season.

The annoying thing about Chucky was when he brought his physical game it threw off his entire game at times.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Dom Luszczyszyn and other analysts started calling Tkachuk a unicorn last season because he was off-the-charts in their fancy stats evaluations.

Do you happen to have quotes or clips?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Florida scored 340 goals compared to 293 for the Flames
They have a powerful offense with a real 1C and 1D. It’s possible that Tkachuk can have another career year .

Huberdeau assisted on 85 of those goals. You’d think they will drop off.

They do have a star 1C, but Barkov is really similar to Lindholm. He’s a high level 200 foot centre. The team was ood enough for them to move Huberdeau to a different line, creating 1 200 foot line and 1 scoring line, like with Toews and Kane back in the day. I don’t think they’ll be able to do that any more - Tkachuk will play with Barkov, I bet. And maybe he’ll procure at the same level, though I think it’s more unlikely that this was his peak. Their second line will suffer.