Report: Israel storms Gaza-bound aid ships

[Azure]

Israeli commandos rappelled from helicopters onto a ship carrying humanitarian supplies to Gaza early Monday, expecting minimal resistance from about 600 pro-Palestinian activists on board. The Israelis badly miscalculated. A melee ended with nine protesters killed. Dozens were wounded, including seven Israeli soldiers.

Many countries quickly condemned the Israeli raid, including its closest ally in the Muslim world, Turkey.

The more we learn about this incident, though, the more it looks like a setup designed to provoke or embarrass Israel.

Video shows the Israeli commandos were surrounded and attacked as they reached the ship's deck. The Israelis tried to avoid a lethal confrontation. Israeli officials reportedly offered the vessel the same deal that was accepted by at least one previous flotilla — divert to the Israeli port of Ashdod and unload the cargo for inspection. As long as the cargo doesn't contain weaponry, it will be shipped into the Gaza Strip by land.

The leaders of the protest group were intent on breaking the blockade. Max Boot of the Council on Foreign Relations wrote in The Wall Street Journal on Monday that the group has close ties to Hamas and to other terrorist groups, including al-Qaida.

The bloody confrontation has prompted international calls for Israel to abandon its embargo of Gaza. Remember, though, why Israel restricts the flow of goods into Gaza.

Hamas, which is backed by Iran, controls Gaza and has used that control to lob missiles into Israel. Hamas has pledged never to recognize the Jewish state. Its goal is to destroy Israel.

Hamas leaders refuse to abide by diplomatic agreements reached by Palestinian negotiators with Israel. Hamas won't join Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas in indirect peace talks with Israel.

Last year, Hamas provoked a three-week war with Israel by firing dozens of rockets in a two-day period. Gazans suffered heavy casualties as Israel retaliated to halt the rocket attacks.

Israel does allow food, medicine, fuel and other staples into Gaza. It is delivering the goods carried by this flotilla. But Israel restricts supplies that can be used to construct rockets, underground bunkers and weapons factories.

Hamas would like nothing better than freer borders for arms shipments. Right now it has to smuggle arms via tunnels dug under the border with Egypt. The Egyptians sometimes can be persuaded to look the other way, but Egyptian authorities also crack down from time to time and destroy the tunnels.

This is turning into a diplomatic debacle for Israel. On Monday, Egypt opened its border with Gaza to deflect criticism of its role in the Israeli embargo. That's an invitation for weapons smuggling. More ships are headed into international waters near Gaza, apparently to provoke another confrontation.

Pardon us, though, if we don't join the condemnation. Israel has a right to defend itself and a keen interest in preventing arms from reaching Gaza. There's a nasty neighbor in control of that territory, just a short-range rocket away.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...,4785345.story

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Azure

But Israel restricts supplies that can be used to construct rockets, underground bunkers and weapons factories.

Perhaps we could stop repeating this canard because it is demonstrably false. Unless, of course, you believe the nutmeg bomb is the next big thing.

[puckluck]

Azure is the new CP Israeli defence minister

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Perhaps we could stop repeating this canard because it is demonstrably false. Unless, of course, you believe the nutmeg bomb is the next big thing.

I believe explosive chemicals or items that can be used to inflict harm can be hidden in shipments of nutmeg.

what is demonstrably false? That Hamas & Iran have tried to smuggle weapons into Gaza? try again. That Hamas uses common everyday household items and building materials to make bombs? (they can only watch McGyver there) - Try again nails & ball bearings cause great wounds. That Hamas hasn't used livestock as a weapon? try again - the first homicide donkey was exploded at the Erez Crossing early in 2010.

Hamas has proven that anything they can use as a weapon they will use as a weapon. everything else is secondary.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Because I disagree with his views.

Because he falsely accused people of faking research.

Because he writes a book basically framing the holocaust as an exageration and an industry for the Jews.

Because he supports Hezbollah?

Which part are we talking about here.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Thanks, no, I've listened to enough of his drivel.

I hazard to guess you have never actually read any of his books.

Not to sound patronizing, it is just abundantly clear your first hand knowledge of his work is extremely shallow.

[zuluking]

Wasn't it Hamas that used ambulances and Red Cross vehicles to transport militants and weapons?

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

what is demonstrably false?

The one I quoted in the post.

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

That Hamas & Iran have tried to smuggle weapons into Gaza? try again.

I'm unsure what you're talking about. I said nothing of the sort. If I did, please point out the post and I will retract the statement.

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

That Hamas uses common everyday household items and building materials to make bombs? (they can only watch McGyver there) - Try again nails & ball bearings cause great wounds. That Hamas hasn't used livestock as a weapon? try again - the first homicide donkey was exploded at the Erez Crossing early in 2010.

Hamas has proven that anything they can use as a weapon they will use as a weapon. everything else is secondary.

The quote that was demonstrably false was "Israel restricts supplies that can be used to construct rockets, underground bunkers and weapons factories."

Newspaper? Dried fruit? Fishing rod?

Those items, along with the nails and ball bearings you identify (I was personally unaware of those two), are part of the embargo to inflict economic duress as part of a collective punishment.

I do not contest that Palestinians have tried and succeeded in smuggling de facto weapons into Israel, and I don't dispute Israel's right to defend herself by restricting / curtailing the transport of these weapons.

[CaptainCrunch]

Holy crap, did anyone else know that you could get high off of Nutmeg?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Holy crap, did anyone else know that you could get high off of Nutmeg?

old school jail house cure for withdrawl.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

old school jail house cure for withdrawl.

Ummm errrr what to say what to say

[Azure]

Oh noes.

Jerusalem (CNN) -- Israel has attempted to deliver humanitarian aid from an international flotilla to Gaza, but Hamas -- which controls the territory -- has refused to accept the cargo, the Israel Defense Forces said Wednesday.


Palestinian sources confirmed that trucks that arrived from Israel at the Rafah terminal at the Israel-Gaza border were barred from delivering the aid.



Ra'ed Fatooh, in charge of the crossings, and Jamal Khudari, head of a committee against the Gaza blockade, said Israel must release all flotilla detainees and that it will be accepted in the territory only by the Free Gaza Movement people who organized the flotilla.


Israel said it had 20 trucks of aid found on the ships, such as expired medications, clothing, blankets, some medical equipment and toys.
Israel has released all foreign flotilla detainees by Wednesday, but four Israeli Arabs remain in custody.
Nine people died Monday when Israel intercepted an aid vessel bound for Gaza.
Under Israeli policy, humanitarian aid must come through Israel and be checked by Israeli authorities who are looking to intercept smuggled weapons bound for militants aiming to attack Israel.


As part of this policy Israel forbids ships from dropping off goods at Gaza ports and works to thwart smuggling via tunnels between Gaza and Egypt.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/...estinians.aid/

[Potty]

--

[CaptainCrunch]

Expired medicines?

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Expired medicines?

For simple prophylaxis, most "expired" medicines are perfectly effective.

You take what you can get.

[carom]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Holy crap, did anyone else know that you could get high off of Nutmeg?

I had a nice old English lady professor in a ‘plants in society’ class I took that told us that. She said you need to eat a few tablespoons to feel it.

She also told us that growing opium poppies in your backyard is illegal. She then proceeded to tell us that she had a couple pretty flowers growing in her backyard.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

For simple prophylaxis, most "expired" medicines are perfectly effective.

You take what you can get.

Aren't there still health risks though?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

For simple prophylaxis, most "expired" medicines are perfectly effective.

You take what you can get.

Since the IHH had a hand in funding this flotilla, they could probably afford non expired medicines. I mean they certainly send like to spread enough money out to terrorist groups. This was less about you take what you can get, and more about a pretty smart red flag operation.

To me this was a flotilla carrying nothing really worthwhile

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

The one I quoted in the post.

I'm unsure what you're talking about. I said nothing of the sort. If I did, please point out the post and I will retract the statement.

The quote that was demonstrably false was "Israel restricts supplies that can be used to construct rockets, underground bunkers and weapons factories."

So my question was how is it demonstrably false that Israel restricts supplies that can be used to construct rockets, underground bunkers and weapons factories?

Just because other items are included in the restrictions does not mean the original statement is false.

Newspaper? Dried fruit? Fishing rod?

Those items, along with the nails and ball bearings you identify (I was personally unaware of those two), are part of the embargo to inflict economic duress as part of a collective punishment. I do not contest that Palestinians have tried and succeeded in smuggling de facto weapons into Israel, and I don't dispute Israel's right to defend herself by restricting / curtailing the transport of these weapons.

I am sure the list that was posted earlier is not the entire list.
I wouldn't be surprised if the excuse for some of these things is "they can hide weapons in those shipments".

Apparently economic duress is effective, just ask the boycott Israel movement.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by carom

I had a nice old English lady professor in a ‘plants in society’ class I took that told us that. She said you need to eat a few tablespoons to feel it.

She also told us that growing opium poppies in your backyard is illegal. She then proceeded to tell us that she had a couple pretty flowers growing in her backyard.

Kinda like "Dead Poet's Society"

[Azure]

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4223683/n...video-released