[News] IIHF Men's Worlds Roster News: Toffoli, Lucic, Weegar added to Team Canada Roster

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Haplo

I'd say it's a symtom of the tournament losing status. Germany and Latvia haven't gotten significantly better over time. The big countries are getting less and less stars over to play, due to high insurance costs and players prioritising golf/family. Include no Russia and it makes the last few Worlds the worst I've seen.

Compared to what? From the way players and fans have been talking, the prestige of the world championships, while maybe not quite as high as what it used to be maybe 10 years ago (when best-on-best international hockey was still a thing, and gave an extra shine to international hockey in general), it's still very high in general when compared to the overall history of the tournament.

It's also worth noting that the number of NHL players in European teams is somewhat down not because the level of play at the tournament is down, but because it's up.

The big trend in world championships before this tournament has been Finland under head coach Jukka Jalonen winning two golds and a silver in the previous three tournaments (plus the 2022 olympic gold), with rosters that put an emphasis on workmanlike attitude, team play and chemistry, and very specifically not on NHL star power. Back in the day, countries used to be watching the NHL playoffs for possible mid-tournament re-inforcements, but this practice is pretty much ended, in very large part due to Jukka Jalonen kind of taking a stand against it. Patrik Laine got cut at Team Finlands camp this year because he was not 100% healthy and at his best.

In the last few years, Finland has very decisively shown that the gap in skill, speed and physicality between European and NHL players has narrowed so much that you can now win without NHL players, even multiple times. While NHL players are still of course better on paper, an NHL player coming out of a tough season might be a downgrade from a less worn out European player who is more used to playing in the bigger rink, and who has experience playing with that national team roster in the various Eurohockey tournaments over the season.

As usual, when someone has success, others start copying. Even before Finlands recent run, the emphasis has already been in building the roster throughout the year in Eurotournaments and in camps, building experience and finding proper roles for everyone. The longer pre-tournament camps also cut down on the number of NHL players, as the commitment required to play for the national team is now bigger than it used to be, and rosters are more filled out before the 1st round of the NHL playoffs ends. Fewer players are also even asked to join, as it's now more about filling needs for the roster rather than just trying to gather all the biggest names from North America.

It's also worth noting that Canada is also clearly putting a lot more emphasis on team play and commitment than they used to. Back in the day, the North American teams were kind of known for their iffy team play and hard partying between the games.

But of course yes, Russia being out also means a lot fewer stars, and that probably also has an effect.

[Haplo]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

It was never a high profile tournament. They get the same amount of stars they usually get, very few. Guys like Toffoli and Weegar have always been the types who headline. Stars, especially older stars, have typically skipped the tourney.

That's just not true. Sure Canada/US may always have had trouble attracting big veteran stars but younger stars would show up. And the European stars would always come if healthy.

Looked back at 10 years ago and there were Taylor Hall, Eberle, Duchene, Giroux, O'Reilly, Subban, Stamkos, Sedins, Landeskog, Oshie, Stastny, Gibson, Josi, Varlamov, Ovetjkin among others. 20 years ago there were Luongo, Bouwmeester, Heatly, Marleau, Doan, Lundqvist, Forsberg, Sundin, Zetterberg, Selänne etc etc.

[butterfly]

It is still good hockey, but nothing like what everyone really wants (best on best). I do watch a bit of it when the Flames miss the playoffs and some Flame players are participating.

There can't be a Team Finland without Heiskanen or Barkov. Or even Laine, honestly.

[Haplo]

Originally Posted by Itse

Compared to what? From the way players and fans have been talking, the prestige of the world championships, while maybe not quite as high as what it used to be maybe 10 years ago (when best-on-best international hockey was still a thing, and gave an extra shine to international hockey in general), it's still very high in general when compared to the overall history of the tournament.

It's also worth noting that the number of NHL players in European teams is somewhat down not because the level of play at the tournament is down, but because it's up.

The big trend in world championships before this tournament has been Finland under head coach Jukka Jalonen winning two golds and a silver in the previous three tournaments (plus the 2022 olympic gold), with rosters that put an emphasis on workmanlike attitude, team play and chemistry, and very specifically not on NHL star power. Back in the day, countries used to be watching the NHL playoffs for possible mid-tournament re-inforcements, but this practice is pretty much ended, in very large part due to Jukka Jalonen kind of taking a stand against it. Patrik Laine got cut at Team Finlands camp this year because he was not seen to be at his best.

In the last few years, Finland has very decisively shown that the gap in skill, speed and physicality between European and NHL players has narrowed so much that you can now win without NHL players, even multiple times. While NHL players are still of course better on paper, an NHL player coming out of a tough season might be a downgrade from a less worn out European player who is more used to playing in the bigger rink, and who has experience playing with that national team roster in the various Eurohockey tournaments over the season.

As usual, when someone has success, others start copying. Even before Finlands recent run, the emphasis has already been in building the roster throughout the year in Eurotournaments and in camps, building experience and finding proper roles for everyone. The longer pre-tournament camps also cut down on the number of NHL players, as the commitment required to play for the national team is now bigger than it used to be. Fewer players are also even asked to join, as it's now more about filling needs for the roster rather than just trying to gather all the biggest names from North America.

It's also worth noting that Canada is also clearly putting a lot more emphasis on team play and commitment than they used to. Back in the day, the North American teams were kind of known for their iffy team play and hard partying between the games.

But of course yes, Russia being out also means a lot fewer stars, and that probably also has an effect.

Jalonen have succeded the last few years largely just because the other squads have been a lot weaker, including the worst Olympic tournament of all time. I highly doubt Jalonen would have had as much success against better teams like those 10-20 years ago. Same as Germany and Latvia reaching semis would be almost unthinkable back then.

Sweden could not afford to pay Elias Petterssons insurance to come to this years tournament. 15 years ago players like Sundin, Forsberg, Zetterberg, Alfredsson, Lundquist, Sedins would be at every tourney.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Haplo

Jalonen have succeded the last few years largely just because the other squads have been a lot weaker, including the worst Olympic tournament of all time. I highly doubt Jalonen would have had as much success against better teams like those 10-20 years ago. Same as Germany and Latvia reaching semis would be almost unthinkable back then.

He also won the gold in 2011 with a fairly similar team, a roster that was widely considered "a disaster" and "doomed to fail". They beat Team Russia with Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Tarasenko etc. in the semifinal, and completely ran over team Sweden in the final, despite Sweden being the heavy favorites to win the game with much more North American players, plus high NHL draft picks like the Flames 1st round pick Tom Erixon.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Haplo

Sweden could not afford to pay Elias Petterssons insurance to come to this years tournament. 15 years ago players like Sundin, Forsberg, Zetterberg, Alfredsson, Lundquist, Sedins would be at every tourney.

That was also the golden era of Swedish hockey in many other ways. (Although Sundin retired from international hockey 17 years ago, but I get what you mean.)

Finland on the other hand could be living it's golden age in international hockey right now, if best-on-best tournaments were still a thing. 3 out of 4 #1 centers in the NHL conference finals were Finns, that's kind of crazy.

Obviously no one can compete on paper with what Canada could put together, but yeah. Aho, Hintz, Barkov, Rantanen, Heiskanen... That could be a starting point for quite a team. If only.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Itse

Obviously no one can compete on paper with what Canada could put together, but yeah. Aho, Hintz, Barkov, Rantanen, Heiskanen... That could be a starting point for quite a team. If only.

I forgot about Aho. Imagine Aho as your 3C, wow. Hockey fans around the world are being robbed of a magnificent tournament that we're left to collectively imagine.

[Haplo]

Originally Posted by Itse

He also won the gold in 2011 with a fairly similar team, a roster that was widely considered "a disaster" and "doomed to fail". They beat Team Russia with Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Tarasenko etc. in the semifinal, and completely ran over team Sweden in the final, despite Sweden being the heavy favorites to win the game with much more North American players, plus high NHL draft picks like the Flames 1st round pick Tom Erixon.

In hindsight Swedish and Finnish squads looked fairly evenly matched, but yes Russia were favourites and Canada, Czechia, Slovakia also had a lot stronger looking squads back then. Of course Jalonen is a good coach. But quality of squads and hockey has gone down, not up, the last decade.

[Haplo]

Originally Posted by Itse

That was also the golden era of Swedish hockey in many other ways. (Although Sundin retired from international hockey 17 years ago, but I get what you mean.)

Finland on the other hand could be living it's golden age in international hockey right now, if best-on-best tournaments were still a thing. 3 out of 4 #1 centers in the NHL conference finals were Finns, that's kind of crazy.

Obviously no one can compete on paper with what Canada could put together, but yeah. Aho, Hintz, Barkov, Rantanen, Heiskanen... That could be a starting point for quite a team. If only.

Yes, I actually feel for you guys there is no best on best tournaments currently. Finland look like the ones closest to challenging Canada and USA. Sweden, Czechia and Russia have certainly lost a step.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Haplo

Yes, I actually feel for you guys there is no best on best tournaments currently. Finland look like the ones closest to challenging Canada and USA. Sweden, Czechia and Russia have certainly lost a step.

Any of the Russian goalies could quite possibly stand on their head and win the tournament. They have so many, someone good wouldn't even make the team.

[Roof-Daddy]

Made it to the final eh? Going to end up with Gold or Silver?

Well whoopity doo, who gives a care. Don't you know they already lost to Norway???

Bunch a losers shouldn't even bother playing the final and just come home.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Made it to the final eh? Going to end up with Gold or Silver?

Well whoopity doo, who gives a care. Don't you know they already lost to Norway???

Bunch a losers shouldn't even bother playing the final and just come home.

Spoken like a true fan board vet.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Haplo

In hindsight Swedish and Finnish squads looked fairly evenly matched, but yes Russia were favourites and Canada, Czechia, Slovakia also had a lot stronger looking squads back then. Of course Jalonen is a good coach. But quality of squads and hockey has gone down, not up, the last decade.

In retrospect that 2011 Swedish squad was pretty massively overrated, and some of those Finnish players were very underrated, but it doesn't ultimately change that Jalonen went down his own path and won.

As for the quality of hockey going down, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that. Even two minor countries playing each other looks like actual hockey now. Every team can play the puck now, and you can occasionally see some really nice plays even from guys who are for example 3rd line wingers for a minor country. There's also a noticeable difference in parity. In 2003, 9/56 games ended with a 6+ goal difference. 2023 that's probably going to remain at 3 (out of 64).

[Ped]

Happy Canada is in the final but a Latvia-Germany Final would have been epic.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

I actually feel kinda bad for Latvia. They may have beat Germany. I don’t see them beating USA. Could have won their first ever medal.

[AndyM]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I actually feel kinda bad for Latvia. They may have beat Germany. I don’t see them beating USA. Could have won their first ever medal.

Maybe Silovs stands on his head. He's had a great tournament.

[jayswin]

What in the actual hell was that Spurs stuff? Either way, not a huge tournament considering it's not best on best, but really excited to watch a Canada final on a Sunday morning.

[midniteowl]

I'll be cheering for Latvia to win Bronze and then cheer Canada on to get the Gold!

[topfiverecords]

Disappointing to find out that stud Latvian goalie Silovs is a Canucks pick.

[MrMike]