[PGT] Flames vs. Oilers. Flames lose 4-2.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Unfortunately it was necessary to spend assets to get some of those players. However, that's just a further example of deficit spending to fill out a terrible roster of his own creation.

Russell is the only guy where the 4th for him was a steal. Colbourne, Knight and Galiardi are very much debatable. The need was there to acquire some more players, but that's a GM'ing issue, and continuing to spend assets to get them isn't a terrific strategy, even if they are maligned as only being '4th rounders'.

That's just flat out wrong.

The chances of getting an NHLer in the 4th round is 10%

Russell and Galiardi already are. Colborne and Knight are both better than 50% at this point in becoming full time NHLers.

To look at any one in isolation, one could argue meh, we might get that or better in the draft.

But to do all 4, in a matter of months, is fantastic, no matter how hard you try to spin it.

The chances of drafting 3 4th rounders and a 5th, and getting those 4 players, is almost 0%.

And the Flames don't have to wait 3 to 5 years to see what they got.

Argue the mistakes all you want, but these were great moves.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

And you - saillias - simply ignored all the good things he has done.

For example, in the last 6 months, he has traded 3 4th round picks and a 5th round pick for Galiardi, Colborne, Knight and Russell

That is incredible asset management. Not only is there virtually no chance that you could do that well with those picks, but by trading the picks for young players that are already developed, he has immediately upgraded the pool of young players and fast forwarded the rebuild by quite a bit.

That isn't incredible management those are 4 guys that struggle to make play-off teams and might not even make some non-play-off teams.

Adding those 4 guys hasn't sped up the rebuild at all as they are just warm bodies to fill up the line-up while we wait for the kids to develop. (Maybe Colborne can develop into more than that.)

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Bolded players left of their own accord. I don't think that's a feather in his cap when they were all his original signings in the first place and all were mostly terrible in their time with Calgary.

Italicised players were moved in a lateral move to rid the team of a terrible contract that feaster signed for one that was perhaps slightly less terrible. Lost the trade in terms of players, came out slightly ahead in contracts.

Underlined players moved for somewhat questionable returns, with a protocol error from Flames management contributing to that questionable return being forced to take a lesser package from Pittsburgh.

That is a substantial reach to find feathers for Feaster's cap.

Not trying to stick a feather in his cap.

I am merely keeping the conversation balanced.

Some people like to blatantly cherry-pick the facts in an attempt to make a point.

[EYE_Overstand]

Originally Posted by nik-

lol, you can't reference moving Tanguay as moving a contract when we got two worse contracts in return in that trade.

Yes you can. You said he moved a HOF and 2 Dman.... You didn't add Tangs... Even though tangs is a great playmaker, he was reported to be sulking around and not wanting to be part of a rebuild... We got Jones, who has yet to play to his contract BUT is bigger younger and a RH shot we kind of lacked. And having SOB over Sarich is good. Sarich is slower and his numbers are way more inflated playing on a very good Colorado team

[VictoryJuice]

Ference got laid out by a clean hit then was pissed off so went after stemps. go damn i hate the oilers i hate ference, this team has to be tougher. This is why I actually like SOB, he is one of the few that stand up for his teammates. Someone should of went after eberle or hall or huge right after that happened and beat the #### out of them. Absolute joke. Not a fan of Hartley at all, on Brents teams there would of been pay back for what happened. #### i hate ference such a POS.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by moon

That isn't incredible management those are 4 guys that struggle to make play-off teams and might not even make some non-play-off teams.

Adding those 4 guys hasn't sped up the rebuild at all as they are just warm bodies to fill up the line-up while we wait for the kids to develop. (Maybe Colborne can develop into more than that.)

Knight could too. And Russell has been very good.

Not all players acquired in a rebuild turn out to be part of the end result.

The idea is to acquire a bunch and see what works out.

You guys can criticize the bad moves all you want. But pretending the good moves aren't what they are just weakens your arguments

[nik-]

Originally Posted by EYE_Overstand

Yes you can. You said he moved a HOF and 2 Dman.... You didn't add Tangs... Even though tangs is a great playmaker, he was reported to be sulking around and not wanting to be part of a rebuild... We got Jones, who has yet to play to his contract BUT is bigger younger and a RH shot we kind of lacked. And having SOB over Sarich is good. Sarich is slower and his numbers are way more inflated playing on a very good Colorado team

Jones and O'Brien are both bad. Tanguay was playing bad here and Sarich is slow. This move was lateral at best. Definitely not something you add to the "good" column for Feaster.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Not trying to stick a feather in his cap.

I am merely keeping the conversation balanced.

Some people like to blatantly cherry-pick the facts in an attempt to make a point.

Well, I see it like you're bending over backwards to find positives for Feaster's tenure. Sometimes it's not cherry picking when confronted with such a substantial list.

Letting Comeau walk the second time when he should have let him walk the first time is not a creditable transaction.

It's an imbalanced discussion because the criteria for good and bad is so horribly imbalanced.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Knight could too. And Russell has been very good.

Not all players acquired in a rebuild turn out to be part of the end result.

The idea is to acquire a bunch and see what works out.

You guys can criticize the bad moves all you want. But pretending the good moves aren't what they are just weakens your arguments

Those moves are meh moves in my view not good not bad. We didn't give anything up and we didn't get anything of value back.

If those moves are being used as examples of good moves Feaster has made I think it is clear why he should go.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by nik-

Jones and O'Brien are both bad. Tanguay was playing bad here and Sarich is slow. This move was lateral at best. Definitely not something you add to the "good" column for Feaster.

I would definitely add moving Tanguay to the .good. list because it was integral to changing the culture.

[Machiavelli]

Russell is the only "good" move of late, in my opinion.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by moon

Those moves are meh moves in my view not good not bad. We didn't give anything up and we didn't get anything of value back.

If those moves are being used as examples of good moves Feaster has made I think it is clear why he should go.

You're right. Instead of trading 3 4ths for a 6'5" C prospect and a 6'2" C prospect, he should have traded them for Getzlaf. That would have been better than meh.

[nik-]

What do their heights matter if they don't produce at the NHL level? Colborne is nothing on the ice, he skates, sometimes goes to the front of the net, doesn't use his size in physical play at all, has hands of stone ... and somehow gets all this love.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Well, I see it like you're bending over backwards to find positives for Feaster's tenure. Sometimes it's not cherry picking when confronted with such a substantial list.

Letting Comeau walk the second time when he should have let him walk the first time is not a creditable transaction.

It's an imbalanced discussion because the criteria for good and bad is so horribly imbalanced.

lol

This conversation has been a 'Feaster has been complete shat' orgy.

I offered a couple counter points and you think I'm bending over backwards?

Knock yourselves out guys - bitch away. Feaster is the worst GM ever.

[Joborule]

I actually don't think what Ference did there was wrong. He was showing that he wasn't going to be physically overpowered, which is something Iggy would've done as well. The issue is the Flames lack of defending their own teammates and allow the other team to push them around. That's not a good thing because it can lead to your own players getting hurt and actually could be detrimental to the intensity the team plays.

The team needs to stand up for one another. It can't just be Jackman and McGrattan being the only players doing that. Otherwise teams are just going to continue to abuse them which won't help the progression of the team's developing players.

[EYE_Overstand]

Originally Posted by nik-

Jones and O'Brien are both bad. Tanguay was playing bad here and Sarich is slow. This move was lateral at best. Definitely not something you add to the "good" column for Feaster.

It was a lateral move BUT it addressed that we needed to be younger bigger and have a RH on the RW.

Another point is that tangs and sarich work going to Colorado because they aren't rebuilding material... They are vets and work for a team like Colorado wanting to take the next step.

People always hate on feaster and Company BUT adding Burke is a great step to solidifying the front office and if people are skeptical still, then that's thier opinion. Fine with that... But to address nothing positive that has been done in the past season + is just a hater being a hater.

We are year one of a rebuild and the heat (yes it's early) are competing very well... That says a lot. The flames on the other hand need more work and hopefully this time next year our team is meaner tougher and can be a little more consistent

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Russell is the only "good" move of late, in my opinion.

Definitely.

Colborne and Galiardi are now just consuming time and games that we could use to assess other potential talents in the system.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

You're right. Instead of trading 3 4ths for a 6'5" C prospect and a 6'2" C prospect, he should have traded them for Getzlaf. That would have been better than meh.

Solid argument.

I can see why Feaster is such a great GM.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by nik-

What do their heights matter if they don't produce at the NHL level? Colborne is nothing on the ice, he skates, sometimes goes to the front of the net, doesn't use his size in physical play at all, has hands of stone ... and somehow gets all this love.

He's a prospect.

Do you understand what a rebuild is?

Do you think other teams are going to give up guys who have fully developed into solid NHLers for 4th round picks?

Show some reasonability in your arguments

[moon]

Originally Posted by Joborule

I actually don't think what Ference did there was wrong. He was showing that he wasn't going to be physically overpowered, which is something Iggy would've done as well.

I have no problem with Ference turning around and going after Stempniak but once he saw Stempniak turn away and try to get away from the fight he should have let it go rather than the punches to the back and forcing him to fight.