CalgaryNEXT Discussion pt. 2

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Table 5

The thing to keep in mind is that the City of Calgary does have a plan for West Village, and had one before CalgaryNEXT came around. It doesn't need a stadium to happen. And considering what CMLC did for East Village, I trust their work much more than what the Flames scrapped together.

I've argued before that I think no arena/stadium makes WV more likely to happen, not less. This is because I just don't think the scheme with CalgaryNEXT will pencil out. A redevelopment without it just seems so much more financially viable with something like a CRL.

An arena at North edge of Stampede along with a nice entertainment district might actually induce demand and lead to quicker build out in EV, which makes WV viable sooner, actually.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Agreed. The EV looked worse, and needed to be developed first. Not any more though. At some point the WV needs to be addressed. The creosote problem isn't going away, and the land is underused as it is. It highly resembles what was in the area around Edmonton's new arena - bus depot, low rent buildings and open lots.

I figure the arena going there is dead, though I think it would have been a very good usage, financing arguments aside.

Completely agree. The best and cheapest way, according to CMLC analysis was to do a remediation method that's quite slow. The faster you go (e.g. to meet some sort of construction schedule for an arena/stadium) the more expensive it gets. I'd say start remediation now, do it the most cost effective way and then perhaps by then the area will be more ripe for development.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Completely agree. The best and cheapest way, according to CMLC analysis was to do a remediation method that's quite slow. The faster you go (e.g. to meet some sort of construction schedule for an arena/stadium) the more expensive it gets. I'd say start remediation now, do it the most cost effective way and then perhaps by then the area will be more ripe for development.

I'd also say start now (development plans or no, arena plans or no). But I'm also betting they don't start for at least 7-10 years. Based on that, the arena would have at least kickstarted the cleanup. In fact, I don;t think it will happen absent a real development of some sort, so there will be a construction schedule to meet. Penny wise and pound foolish in that sense. Unless they can talk a developer into absorbing cleanup cost (not likely).

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think land bought that can't be used is a hit on the tax payer. When you hear about chemicals in people's basements after the floods it's an issue. And real estate within walking distance of a major city's downtown core shouldn't be an odd old bus station, some car lots, and an empty field.

It just doesn't say modern city to me.

The East Village was embarrassing now it's becoming very cool. I'm not saying the city should take the deal as it stands, but I hope something happens in the West with or without an arena project to do the same.

I think Calgary deserves it.

Modern city = meaningless buzzword. New York subways flooded with Hurricane Sandy - most not be a modern city. LA downtown has a section known as Skid Row - must not be a modern city.

Every city in the world has some areas that aren't as nice as others. That is the modern city reality.

[powderjunkie]

Nenshi quote from Herald article

“And then, the airport transit will connect to the Green Line and the Blue Line across the north end of the city down Airport Trail. But, that’s not going to happen anytime soon — unless, of course, we get the Olympics,” he told the crowd.

I was under the impression that the green line trains would be incompatible with red/blue lines. I know he isn't explicitly talking about linking the two with rail...but I guess I don't really know what he is talking about. Anyone have links to any official city planning wrt to airport lrt? Really curious where/how it would integrate into the airport

[RM14]

Originally Posted by Table 5

The thing to keep in mind is that the City of Calgary does have a plan for West Village, and had one before CalgaryNEXT came around. It doesn't need a stadium to happen. And considering what CMLC did for East Village, I trust their work much more than what the Flames scrapped together.

LOL, the CMLC was on board with CalgaryNEXT...

[Muta]

There already is an RFP out for a functional study of the blue line being extended to the airport, with six new stations along the way.

There is some actual work behind what Nenshi is saying, and it's been out since before he said it. From my view, this is further along than most people probably think.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The EV was in worse shape, but no longer. Those pics are old, right? Now there is a trendy walkway, a great restaurant/bar area by the river, etc. So what more needs to happen in EV that requires the limited capital?

whereas:

A lot of American cities would be proud of this picture if they had it, as opposed to using it to attempt to show a blighted area that needs development, lol.

Did you even notice that you included one of the biggest skate parks in North America that had us envied by many cities and drew Tony Hawk and his friends to come see it?

[Fighting Banana Slug]

^^Agreed that "blight" is slight hyperbole, but that picture doesn't really capture the idea that it is an area in need of redevelopment.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Modern city = meaningless buzzword. New York subways flooded with Hurricane Sandy - most not be a modern city. LA downtown has a section known as Skid Row - must not be a modern city.

Every city in the world has some areas that aren't as nice as others. That is the modern city reality.

Do New Yorkers plan on leaving the Hurricane Sandy mess or do something about it?

Is L.A. marketing Skid Row as a tourist destination or are there plans to revitalize that part of the city?

I'm guessing both aren't long term plans to be kept as is ... I'm merely suggesting Calgary should do something about developing land west of their down town core to add to a growing city.

No buzz words there.

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Do New Yorkers plan on leaving the Hurricane Sandy mess or do something about it?

Is L.A. marketing Skid Row as a tourist destination or are there plans to revitalize that part of the city?

I'm guessing both aren't long term plans to be kept as is ... I'm merely suggesting Calgary should do something about developing land west of their down town core to add to a growing city.

No buzz words there.

You don't address Bunk's concept of Sustainable growth though.

Also I would argue stating that Calgaryians "Deserve" CalgaryNEXT is buzzword worthy.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Do you mean less residential availability? Maybe. The old 2010 plan called for a huge boulevard that would have been at least equal to an arena/entertainment area.

The attraction for me on the calgaryNEXT notion (flawed design concepts, financing aside) was getting the stadium/fieldhouse/arena. Once that's off the table, yeah, WV can be developed however the City wants. I think taxpayers will eat all of the cleanup costs and a large part of the development infrastructure costs.

By development canibalization I mean the east village isn't completed because the west village is starting so neither reach their full potential and pay or their CRLs.

On CalgaryNext the problem is that the CRL is too small of an area to cover the city portion of Calgary next, the clean up, and the 300 million of infrastructure required. If you take out Calgary Next and instead have privately owned land it will pay taxes you are able to fund the infrastructure and the clean up.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Did you even notice that you included one of the biggest skate parks in North America that had us envied by many cities and drew Tony Hawk and his friends to come see it?

I remember hearing way back in the day that Millennium Park was selected as a level in a Tony Hawk video game, but the developers weren't able to get the permission from the City to do so.

Would have been interesting.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Kavvy

You don't address Bunk's concept of Sustainable growth though.

Also I would argue stating that Calgaryians "Deserve" CalgaryNEXT is buzzword worthy.

Hilarious

Never said Calgary deserves CalgaryNEXT go have a look again. I said they deserve something better in west village than an investment in contaminated soil, an ugly bus station and some car lots.

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Hilarious

Never said Calgary deserves CalgaryNEXT go have a look again. I said they deserve something better in west village than an investment in contaminated soil, an ugly bus station and some car lots.

You misunderstand me. I never said you said that.

My point is developing WV isn't sustainable and hurts the EV at this point in time.

Arguing that Calgary "deserves" to develop both at the same time when investment may not be there, and therefore causing both to potentially struggle, is a buzzword.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Kavvy

You misunderstand me. I never said you said that.

My point is developing WV isn't sustainable and hurts the EV at this point in time.

Arguing that Calgary "deserves" to develop both at the same time when investment may not be there, and therefore causing both to potentially struggle, is a buzzword.

you sure?

this is your quote

Also I would argue stating that Calgaryians "Deserve" CalgaryNEXT is buzzword worthy.

Seems like you said that to me, hell the words are right next to each other it doesn't take a lot of interpretation.

Additionally, the group that developed East Village came to the city to ask to kick off the West Village before CalgaryNext was even announced.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Table 5

The thing to keep in mind is that the City of Calgary does have a plan for West Village, and had one before CalgaryNEXT came around. It doesn't need a stadium to happen. And considering what CMLC did for East Village, I trust their work much more than what the Flames scrapped together.

Yeah, but was CMLC's WV plan, modern and cool?????

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by Bingo

you sure?

this is your quote


Seems like you said that to me, hell the words are right next to each other it doesn't take a lot of interpretation.

Additionally, the group that developed East Village came to the city to ask to kick off the West Village before CalgaryNext was even announced.

Fair enough, I wasn't thinking the same as I typed.

I still think your point of Calgary Deserving something is over the top.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Muta

There already is an RFP out for a functional study of the blue line being extended to the airport, with six new stations along the way.

There is some actual work behind what Nenshi is saying, and it's been out since before he said it. From my view, this is further along than most people probably think.

Is this a good idea? I know the rail link to the airport in Toronto has been a giant failure. Just not sure there's a ton of people who want to take public transit to and from an airport.

[Freeway]

It's worth noting that CMLC has partnered with the Stampede Board to integrate the East Village plan with the Stampede Park master plan.