[PGT] Flames lose 3-1 to the Rangers

[tony-soprano]

So..Darryl wasn’t the problem?

[Paulie Walnuts]

All the people talking about attendance.

3 Canadian teams came in the bottom of 5 of lowest attendance last night. It is not a Flames issue.

I was listening to a podcast talking about spending and Americans are still spending on entertainment. They are spending a lot and are on track to have one of the busier Christmas seasons.

Its the opposite in Canada.

Don't think people are realizing how bad it is for people right now, it's not because of a poor product.

Seems like a lot of people are making the logical choice of feeding themselves and heating their homes.

[Bonded]

I can't wait till the pro Sutter people finally peter out haha. He wasn't canned because he didn't understand hockey, he was canned because he was toxic to staff members across the organization.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I can't wait till the pro Sutter people finally peter out haha. He wasn't canned because he didn't understand hockey, he was canned because he was toxic to staff members across the organization.

So annoying.

They act like we canned the greatest coach of all time or something.

Did the Red Wing fans long for Scotty Bowman the last 5 years?

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

All the people talking about attendance.

3 Canadian teams came in the bottom of 5 of lowest attendance last night. It is not a Flames issue.

I was listening to a podcast talking about spending and Americans are still spending on entertainment. They are spending a lot and are on track to have one of the busier Christmas seasons.

Its the opposite in Canada.

Don't think people are realizing how bad it is for people right now, it's not because of a poor product.

Seems like a lot of people are making the logical choice of feeding themselves and heating their homes.

The on ice product does matter. Most of the Canadian teams are mediocre. Jets are in the same spot as the Flames. The Canucks have been a mess since Benning. Even some of my hardcore Oilers friends are starting to realize that they won't win riding McDavid and Draisaitl to death and they are having a terrible start. The Canadiens and Sens are trying to come out of rebuilds but aren't killing the start of the season.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Bonded

The on ice product does matter. Most of the Canadian teams are mediocre. Jets are in the same spot as the Flames. The Canucks have been a mess since Benning. Even some of my hardcore Oilers friends are starting to realize that they won't win riding McDavid and Draisaitl to death and they are having a terrible start. The Canadiens and Sens are trying to come out of rebuilds but aren't killing the start of the season.

It matters, but in the environment right now its not the only factor. American teams are still drawing fans.

Times are tough. You are not spending money on a luxury like a hockey game.

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

It matters, but in the environment right now, it's not the only factor. American teams are still drawing fans.

Times are tough. You are not spending money on a luxury like a hockey game.

Goes both ways. Oilers and Leafs are fine selling out cause they have star power that brings people to the games. If the Flames had a couple of superstars, I'm sure Flames would have no issues filling seats.

[howard_the_duck]

I actually thought that they looked good last night, for the most part. Sloppiness for sure but played with pace and more attempts to get into the middle of the ice.

But it’s not enough, and I’m afraid what we see is what we’re gonna get with this team. In most games, look relatively evenly matched, but just don’t have the horses to be much more than that.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by JurassicTunga12

Can we please. just. rebuild?

The team as it is constructed, is clearly not good enough.

I thought that's what they're doing for the next several years? Anyone here thinks the Flames are a Cup contender for this next 2 years or even be a playoff contender?

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

Which is 11 PM ET for a New York team

Originally Posted by colbym72

Awful excuse. 8 pm starts are not uncommon. Most Wednesday or Saturday games are at this time. and imagine how late it felt for the eastern team

I was referring to the attendance.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by tony-soprano

So..Darryl wasn’t the problem?

He was

But only a tiny bit of it

The wizard was the bigger problem. He just disguised it better

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Markstrom played bad enough to lose, everyone else did too.

It seems to me that the only bad or close to bad goals that Markstrom has given up this year is a shot from high in the slot screened by and through the legs of a defenceman. I could be forgetting some, though.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

It matters, but in the environment right now its not the only factor. American teams are still drawing fans.

Times are tough. You are not spending money on a luxury like a hockey game.

Cost is an issue, but in a city of 1.5M~ people there is certainly enough well off hockey fans to sell out the dome regardless. The Flames product sucks. Fans are sick of mediocrity. Games are expensive - way too expensive - even if you can afford it.

At least when the Flames were losing with Iginla, or Gaudreau and Tkachuk, you would be entertained to a certain degree with high skill and tenacity. This product BT has left us with is like a wet noodle and has honestly been and continues to be one of the worst in the entire league for the last 88 games or so, from an entertainment standpoint. It's actually at the point on game days where fans are pumped in game threads that the team looks like it's at least playing hard versus actually being dynamic, scoring goals and being fun to watch.

I've attempted to watch 5 games this year and have only come close to fully sticking out 2 of these games. Sad really when I would consider myself someone who rarely misses a game as recently as 4-5 years ago. This franchise is going to see how ugly this is going to get if the product doesn't pull a houdini asap or if they don't finally commit to changing their ways and attempt to rebuild.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by D as in David

It seems to me that the only bad or close to bad goals that Markstrom has given up this year is a shot from high in the slot screened by and through the legs of a defenceman. I could be forgetting some, though.

That 3rd goal last night was the type of goal that he did not let in during his last couple seasons in Vancouver. And I'm not trying to say "he didn't let many in". I mean he legit, just did not give up goals on wristers from outside the top of the slot.


His time in Calgary has seen him revert back to his first three seasons in Vancouver where he was letting in the first shot with an untenable frequency and giving up at least one soft goal a game. The first shot and the soft goal were often one and the same.

[Flames0910]

Flames are a mediocre team without high-end talent, and even worse there's no real hope for the future.

Hard to get excited to go down to the dome and buy overpriced food & drink when the product is so poor.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

That 3rd goal last night was the type of goal that he did not let in during his last couple seasons in Vancouver. And I'm not trying to say "he didn't let many in". I mean he legit, just did not give up goals on wristers from outside the top of the slot.


His time in Calgary has seen him revert back to his first three seasons in Vancouver where he was letting in the first shot with an untenable frequency and giving up at least one soft goal a game. The first shot and the soft goal were often one and the same.

You're not wrong - but what is the expectation here?

Markstrom had the team in a 1-0, 1-1, 1-2 game for nearly 2 periods. This team needs to be able to score more than 2 goals (something they've only managed twice in seven games). Even if that third goal didn't go in, the team was cooked at 1-2 just fully unable to cash in on any high danger chances. It's not unlucky at this point, it's just a complete lack of necessary finish.

Any decent playoff calibre team will average 3.2-3.5 GF/G, which is a full goal more per game than this team is currently mustering. If the team needs to win by being tighter defensively, they better get Wolf up here asap and figure out what he is, because neither of these goalies are going to be top 5 in the league anytime soon.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

You're not wrong - but what is the expectation here?

Markstrom had the team in a 1-0, 1-1, 1-2 game for nearly 2 periods. This team needs to be able to score more than 2 goals (something they've only managed twice in seven games). Even if that third goal didn't go in, the team was cooked at 1-2 just fully unable to cash in on any high danger chances. It's not unlucky at this point, it's just a complete lack of necessary finish.

Any decent playoff calibre team will average 3.2-3.5 GF/G, which is a full goal more per game than this team is currently mustering. If the team needs to win by being tighter defensively, they better get Wolf up here asap and figure out what he is, because neither of these goalies are going to be top 5 in the league anytime soon.

Markstrom is currently in a very similar position to what he was in when he was here in Vancouver. If he gives up more than two goals his team loses. When he was in Vancouver, the team was on his back, and everyone knew it. He was the team's MVP. He was their best player. The team went as Markstrom went and would go as far as he could take him. He was beloved for it. It's a big reason Calgary targeted him and inexplicable to some as to why Vancouver let him go.


But, expectations change when you are brought in from the outside. You are expected to be the solution to the problems. You don't have a fanbase that adores you as you come in. So despite the fact what he is doing hasn't changed much, what is expected of him has changed. He's paid more and he's in a results driven league. His absolute meltdown vs the Oilers in the play-offs shortened the leash. That he didn't bounce back at the start of last seasons sealed his fate with a lot of people.


Last night it wasn't that he let in a soft goal. It's that the soft goal was the third goal and the third goal against for the Flames is game over, usually no matter when it is scored. That he let in three and that the third was soft means, to some people, he didn't give the team a chance to win.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Markstrom is currently in a very similar position to what he was in when he was here in Vancouver. If he gives up more than two goals his team loses. When he was in Vancouver, the team was on his back, and everyone knew it. He was the team's MVP. He was their best player. The team went as Markstrom went and would go as far as he could take him. He was beloved for it. It's a big reason Calgary targeted him and inexplicable to some as to why Vancouver let him go.


But, expectations change when you are brought in from the outside. You are expected to be the solution to the problems. You don't have a fanbase that adores you as you come in. So despite the fact what he is doing hasn't changed much, what is expected of him has changed. He's paid more and he's in a results driven league. His absolute meltdown vs the Oilers in the play-offs shortened the leash. That he didn't bounce back at the start of last seasons sealed his fate with a lot of people.


Last night it wasn't that he let in a soft goal. It's that the soft goal was the third goal and the third goal against for the Flames is game over, usually no matter when it is scored. That he let in three and that the third was soft means, to some people, he didn't give the team a chance to win.

He did though. There are higher paid guys that need to be difference makers on the Flames, who aren't. Markstrom got them out of the first with a lead as the Rangers closed the period strong with some great chances. At some point the offense has to get the big goal. The 3rd goal sucked but there was plenty of time before then for someone (maybe a $10.5M player?) to make some kind of impact. Markstrom has been very good this season, he's doing his job. It's not a reasonable expectation that he be perfect. His teammates need to step up, especially the big money guys.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

It matters, but in the environment right now its not the only factor. American teams are still drawing fans.

Times are tough. You are not spending money on a luxury like a hockey game.

American teams are still drawing fans because they have massive catchment areas. The Canadian teams outside of Toronto don't have the population base of American teams. So when the product sucks, casual fans stop going and there simply isn't as many fans to fill seats.

IMO it's a function of (quality of product) X (population), as opposed to economic differences between the US and Canada. The US has always been head and shoulders above Canada economically that's not new.

The product simply matters more in Canada.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Igottago

He did though. There are higher paid guys that need to be difference makers on the Flames, who aren't. Markstrom got them out of the first with a lead as the Rangers closed the period strong with some great chances. At some point the offense has to get the big goal. The 3rd goal sucked but there was plenty of time before then for someone (maybe a $10.5M player?) to make some kind of impact. Markstrom has been very good this season, he's doing his job. It's not a reasonable expectation that he be perfect. His teammates need to step up, especially the big money guys.

I don't disagree. The team didn't score two, so a weak third goal is irrelevant. But for some people, he's not allowed to give that up for a plethora of reasons that fair or unfair, are reasons that regularly come up in sports.