[Rumour] Chris Johnston: Lindholm is interested in staying

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Let's look at the 10 most important and impactful players on the Flames, and how they performed last season (in order of who I think is the most important):

Huberdeau: career worst season
Lindholm: slow start, some good periods, but overall, so so
Markstrom: terrible - career worst? (relative to expectations)
Kadri: good start, but disastrous overall, and beyond horrific down the stretch
Andersson: very good
Weegar: slow first half, ended strong
Backlund: really good
Toffoli: slow start, but ended up as a career year
Mangiapane: poor overall, sometimes very bad
Hanifin: meh

Can anyone look at that list and think they won't be better this year?

Then you look at the changes: Lucic, Lewis, Ritchie, Stone out; Pelletier, Coronato, Duehr, Wolf in

Pretty easy to imagine they'll be better this year, IMO

For context, Weegar didn’t just finish strong - he was the Flames most effective D at 5v5 and on the PK, by a country light year.

Among D who played at least 1400 minutes at even strength, the man was the best shot suppressor in the entire league - 21.2 shots against per 60, which is almost four entire shots better than #2 - Drew Doughty.

On the PK, Weegar’s SA/60 was easily best on the team at 38.96 - Hanifin, playing 50 more short handed minutes, had a SA/60 of 53.9. He was a comparative disaster on the PK.

Play MacKenzie Weegar like he’s Doughty and good things will happen.

[Reign of Fire]

Originally Posted by Sandman

If people are so worried about having too many players on lengthy contracts into their late 30’s, then I would rather trade Huby or Kadri than Lindholm (if he’s willing to stay). Selke-caliber centers who can put up near a ppg don’t grow on trees. If we trade Lindholm, we will pine for another Lindholm. He’s very important.

But no one is going to want Huby/Kadri with their contracts


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[Username: Flames]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

But no one is going to want Huby/Kadri with their contracts


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Exactly.

[Reign of Fire]

If Conroy can somehow move Kadri, even with some salary retained, then it makes sense to sign Lindholm

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

For context, Weegar didn’t just finish strong - he was the Flames most effective D at 5v5 and on the PK, by a country light year.

Among D who played at least 1400 minutes at even strength, the man was the best shot suppressor in the entire league - 21.2 shots against per 60, which is almost four entire shots better than #2 - Drew Doughty.

On the PK, Weegar’s SA/60 was easily best on the team at 38.96 - Hanifin, playing 50 more short handed minutes, had a SA/60 of 53.9. He was a comparative disaster on the PK.

Play MacKenzie Weegar like he’s Doughty and good things will happen.

I agree with you. Again, my point was that Weegar can - and should - be more than what he was last year. I wasn't criticizing him, IMO, the Flames under-utilized him dreadfully. I think this year's Weegar will be quite a bit more impactful than last year's.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

If Conroy can somehow move Kadri, even with some salary retained, then it makes sense to sign Lindholm

Short of a deep, profound love of Calgary and the mountains, why does Lindholm want to sign here?

He can get his money this summer no matter what - he only needs to play ball with a sign-and-trade.

No history of chemistry with Huberdeau. His linemate Toffoli is a 31 year old UFA who already isn’t fast.

No game breaking talents in the system - no matter what you think of Coronato, I wouldn’t gamble the prime my career on some college kid. Maybe if he had the hype or self-evident talent of Johnny Gaudreau, but certainly not for Cole Caufield 2.0.

The goalie might be broken, the other goalie is 160 lbs.

The other two best players are older than him, and he’s debatably the best player on the team. I’m sure he doesn’t lack for confidence, but I doubt very much Lindholm believes he can be the best player on a Stanley Cup team.

I guess we could overpay, but in a cap world, you’re only as beloved as your contract, and the easiest guys for fans to pile on are the ones with the fattest bank accounts.

All these arguments apply to Hanifin as well - it doesn’t serve either to extend here.

[Reign of Fire]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Short of a deep, profound love of Calgary and the mountains, why does Lindholm want to sign here?

He can get his money this summer no matter what - he only needs to play ball with a sign-and-trade.

No history of chemistry with Huberdeau. His linemate Toffoli is a 31 year old UFA who already isn’t fast.

No game breaking talents in the system - no matter what you think of Coronato, I wouldn’t gamble the prime my career on some college kid. Maybe if he had the hype or self-evident talent of Johnny Gaudreau, but certainly not for Cole Caufield 2.0.

The goalie might be broken, the other goalie is 160 lbs.

The other two best players are older than him, and he’s debatably the best player on the team. I’m sure he doesn’t lack for confidence, but I doubt very much Lindholm believes he can be the best player on a Stanley Cup team.

I guess we could overpay, but in a cap world, you’re only as beloved as your contract, and the easiest guys for fans to pile on are the ones with the fattest bank accounts.

All these arguments apply to Hanifin as well - it doesn’t serve either to extend here.

I didn't say they wanted to extend; I am talking from Flames point of view. Adding Lindholm to a stack of other over 30 players doesn't help Calgary. I was simply saying it only works for Calgary if they can move Kadri.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

But no one is going to want Huby/Kadri with their contracts


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I still think they could be moved, we just wouldn’t get as much.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

I didn't say they wanted to extend; I am talking from Flames point of view. Adding Lindholm to a stack of other over 30 players doesn't help Calgary. I was simply saying it only works for Calgary if they can move Kadri.

I get you, I’m just asking.

Because I’ve been asking for weeks, and nobody’s given an answer that isn’t “money”.

The last two years have taught us money isn’t the driving factor in these decisions - situation is. Tkachuk and Gaudreau declined $156M worth of contracts to play somewhere else.

So if nothing about this situation is fundamentally appealing to Elias Lindholm (and, IMO, that’s 100% the case), then he’s not going to be a Flame when they start booing Gary.

[Reign of Fire]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I get you, I’m just asking.

Because I’ve been asking for weeks, and nobody’s given an answer that isn’t “money”.

The last two years have taught us money isn’t the driving factor in these decisions - situation is. Tkachuk and Gaudreau declined $156M worth of contracts to play somewhere else.

So if nothing about this situation is fundamentally appealing to Elias Lindholm (and, IMO, that’s 100% the case), then he’s not going to be a Flame when they start booing Gary.

I am actually hoping Lindholm doesn't want to sign, so they can move him for younger pieces

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

I am actually hoping Lindholm doesn't want to sign, so they can move him for younger pieces

#Me28

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Poe969

...The "they'll have a bounce back year" argument is sad. People want multiple guys on the wrong side of 30 to improve.

No. I think most people expect a few guys between 27-33 to perform to the same level they have consistently for most of their careers. That on its own will make a dramatic improvement to this team that badly underachieved, and still barely missed the playoffs.

The Flames are a good team.


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[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

For context, Weegar didn’t just finish strong - he was the Flames most effective D at 5v5 and on the PK, by a country light year.

Among D who played at least 1400 minutes at even strength, the man was the best shot suppressor in the entire league - 21.2 shots against per 60, which is almost four entire shots better than #2 - Drew Doughty.

On the PK, Weegar’s SA/60 was easily best on the team at 38.96 - Hanifin, playing 50 more short handed minutes, had a SA/60 of 53.9. He was a comparative disaster on the PK.

Play MacKenzie Weegar like he’s Doughty and good things will happen.

And this is why you move Hanifin for a haul and promote Weegar.

[Mattman]

3 years x 9 million
Or
4 years x 8.5 million

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Mattman

3 years x 9 million
Or
4 years x 8.5 million

Lindholm is not signing either of those deals. No chance.

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[Mattman]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Lindholm is not signing either of those deals. No chance.

So what 3x9.5 or 4x9 ?

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The majority of experts had them as the best team, starting last season. And had Seattle as probably 7th. But you have to actually play the games.

It will be an almost identical roster to last year, except a little younger and faster. They could finish anywhere from 1st to 5th. But stating that they are a bubble team, like it's fact, simply because that is where they finished last year, is pretty silly.

And if the bolded happens, they will compete for the division crown

Anything can happen, and I've said as much.
We don't know who's going to slump, who's going to get injured, what teams will have chemistry issues, who gets an unexpected unsung hero etc etc.
But we aren't constructed like an elite contender, so I want management to start aiming for that.
Signing another long term contract that will keep the team competitive, but not too good, not too bad isn't my preference.

[Caged Great]

I am entirely leaning towards trade Hanifin, Backlund, and Lindholm now for draft related things. This draft is stacked with forwards and it's not a normal draft. Guys that are available at 16 would normally be top 8 picks. If the Flames were able to get a late first for Backlund (not necessarily this year), a First plus for Hanifin and a first plus for Lindholm, the Flames would be able to "rebuild" without actually rebuilding.

Head into the season

Huberdeau-Kadri-Toffoli
Ruzicka/Coronato-Dube-Mangiapane
Pelletier-New defensive minded Center-Coleman
Duehr-Zary-Other forward

Andersson-Weegar
Kylington-Tanev
Zadorov-Stetcher

Markstrom
Wolf

That's not a horrid lineup. The forward group is weaker significantly, but that's also going to give all the young guys the opportunity to take the reins. With our division, the team should still be in the mix for the playoffs. It also gives the prospect pool a huge boost so in two years the team will have about 4-5 good young guys ready to make the jump.

Place more emphasis on young guys while having pillars like Kadri-Huberdeau-Weegar being the veteran balance to help the young guys take the reins.

[Caged Great]

The way I look at it, Forwards are the "easiest" to develop in terms of speed from draft pick to legit players. With this draft being so forward heavy, getting 2-3 picks in the top 30 will allow the team to hopefully get two legit scorers in the next two seasons. That in addition to allowing the current crop of young players the space to see what they've got. Pelletier, Ruzicka, Zary, Coronato, Duehr, Pospisil, Pettersen, Phillips if he's back.

Defenders and Goalies take the longest. Wolf having time to develop in a less pressure situation will help. Additionally all the defenders except Tanev are in the ideal defenseman age group and another year or two is not going to hurt any of them. They will still be an elite group of defenders in two years, with or without Hanifin. The only defense prospect that is looking to crack that lineup any time soon is Poirier, which he'll be ready in a year or two.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Short of a deep, profound love of Calgary and the mountains, why does Lindholm want to sign here?

He can get his money this summer no matter what - he only needs to play ball with a sign-and-trade.


No history of chemistry with Huberdeau. His linemate Toffoli is a 31 year old UFA who already isn’t fast.


No game breaking talents in the system - no matter what you think of Coronato, I wouldn’t gamble the prime my career on some college kid. Maybe if he had the hype or self-evident talent of Johnny Gaudreau, but certainly not for Cole Caufield 2.0.

The goalie might be broken, the other goalie is 160 lbs.

The other two best players are older than him, and he’s debatably the best player on the team. I’m sure he doesn’t lack for confidence, but I doubt very much Lindholm believes he can be the best player on a Stanley Cup team.

I guess we could overpay, but in a cap world, you’re only as beloved as your contract, and the easiest guys for fans to pile on are the ones with the fattest bank accounts.

All these arguments apply to Hanifin as well - it doesn’t serve either to extend here.

The last coach was a stubborn to a fault

Huberdeau said Lindholm would lead the league in goals because he’d be feeding him

So Sutter played him on PP2 and most often with Lucic. Better off teaching a lesson than succeeding. It was madness

So if Lindy could give slow (your words) Toffoli a career year, well..

Maybe Conroy can convince him that common sense and order are being restored