[Rumour] Chris Johnston: Lindholm is interested in staying

[Poe969]

That's not the issue. With him, they're a bubble team drafting mid teens. If they trade him, the team gets worse now but better in the long run. They'll gain assets, draft higher and won't have another expensive contract for a guy in his 30's.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

He can't sign by Friday. Or next Friday.

Come July 1st, the draft is already over. So why take such a confrontational approach? What difference does it make if it takes a couple more weeks?

Ultimatums can be effective, as a negotiating style. But they are also volatile and dangerous - they fail more often than they succeed.

Oh it doesn’t have to be “confrontational” if communicated properly. It’s not hostile, or anything of the sort. Strictly business. We are running a multimillion dollar (billion dollar?) business and have timelines to make decisions. Fact is, we need certainty before the draft to optimize value so that’s what we intend to do. If you’re not sure, that’s fine, no hard feelings, but we have to make decisions on our timeline- not Lindholm’s. Again, pretty straightforward. And yes he can give that certainty before the draft (in good faith).

[Username: Flames]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Good thing Lindholm is the anti-mediocre guy then.

He is actually really really way better than mediocre in fact.

The rest of the team is though. And they aren't getting younger. This is a heck of a chance for the team to acquire some significant futures. I don't want to see them over pay another guy well into his 30's.

"Well, what about Dallas and all their old guys?!"

Dallas had the 2017 draft. Flames haven't had a good draft for a long time.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Poe969

That's not the issue. With him, they're a bubble team drafting mid teens. If they trade him, the team gets worse now but better in the long run. They'll gain assets, draft higher and won't have another expensive contract for a guy in his 30's.

Highly debatable.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Username: Flames

The rest of the team is though. And they aren't getting younger. This is a heck of a chance for the team to acquire some significant futures. I don't want to see them over pay another guy well into his 30's.

"Well, what about Dallas and all their old guys?!"

Dallas had the 2017 draft. Flames haven't had a good draft for a long time.

This is not the greatest argument to make, when lobbying for a rebuild

[Username: Flames]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

This is not the greatest argument to make, when lobbying for a rebuild

That's a good point.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Highly debatable.

Well, he was on the Flames, they were a bubble team that didn't make the playoffs, and they'll draft in the mid teens. That really isn't debatable...it happened.

The "they'll have a bounce back year" argument is sad. People want multiple guys on the wrong side of 30 to improve. This isn't a good team. This isn't a bad team. It's a bubble team doomed to draft in the mid teens...unless they change things. This is their chance to change things.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Well, he was on the Flames, they were a bubble team that didn't make the playoffs, and they'll draft in the mid teens. That really isn't debatable...it happened.

The "they'll have a bounce back year" argument is sad. People want multiple guys on the wrong side of 30 to improve. This isn't a good team. This isn't a bad team. It's a bubble team doomed to draft in the mid teens...unless they change things. This is their chance to change things.

So we should hand out the trophies based on last year's standings? I don't think that would be a popular decision in Vegas.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by Username: Flames

The rest of the team is though. And they aren't getting younger. This is a heck of a chance for the team to acquire some significant futures. I don't want to see them over pay another guy well into his 30's.

"Well, what about Dallas and all their old guys?!"

Dallas had the 2017 draft. Flames haven't had a good draft for a long time.

Well they had a hell of a draft in 2016- but the 2 key guys aren’t here anymore

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by browntrout

I don't understand the rush to sign him...the team missed the playoffs...why not wait...look how Huberdeau turned out

I will go on record as saying this team won't make the playoffs next year even with a healthy Lindholm

The NHL is unpredictable these days, but on paper the Flames are the 4th best team in the Pacific (at best).
Markstrom or Wolf capturing Vezina form, Huberdeau going top 5 in league scoring again, there are ways the Flames get there, but they're a wild card competing team right now unless something like those scenarios go perfect.
Management needs to be prudent and not work off best case scenarios. That was one of my main issues with the Treliving era.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

The NHL is unpredictable these days, but on paper the Flames are the 4th best team in the Pacific (at best).
Markstrom or Wolf capturing Vezina form, Huberdeau going top 5 in league scoring again, there are ways the Flames get there, but they're a wild card competing team right now unless something like those scenarios go perfect.
Management needs to be prudent and not work off best case scenarios. That was one of my main issues with the Treliving era.

The majority of experts had them as the best team, starting last season. And had Seattle as probably 7th. But you have to actually play the games.

It will be an almost identical roster to last year, except a little younger and faster. They could finish anywhere from 1st to 5th. But stating that they are a bubble team, like it's fact, simply because that is where they finished last year, is pretty silly.

And if the bolded happens, they will compete for the division crown

[Mephisto]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Good thing Lindholm is the anti-mediocre guy then.

He is actually really really way better than mediocre in fact.

This!

Flames will be looking to find someone exactly like him if he leaves. 8 x $9m is worth it for Lindholm.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Well, he was on the Flames, they were a bubble team that didn't make the playoffs, and they'll draft in the mid teens. That really isn't debatable...it happened.

The "they'll have a bounce back year" argument is sad. People want multiple guys on the wrong side of 30 to improve. This isn't a good team. This isn't a bad team. It's a bubble team doomed to draft in the mid teens...unless they change things. This is their chance to change things.

I think this is a terrible post.

Who on the wrong side of 30 do we want to bounce back? The guy who literally just turned 30 less than 3 weeks ago? Another is our goalie who is 33 but we have seen high end goalies have up and down years many times in the past. Other than that the team wants first half Kadri and second half Weegar and sub 30 year old Mangiapane to get better. If these things happen the team is not on the bubble they are fighting for a top spot in the division. If there were not so many pending UFA’s this team could run it back replacing older vets like Lewis and Lucic with prospects but they need to make some changes due to their contracts.

The Flames have never been the same team 2 years in a row since Treliving took over. You could argue 2020, and 2021 were similar with both years on the bubble but both of those seasons were impacted by a global pandemic.

This team finished with 93pts when their 2 best players had career worst seasons and a massive string of bad luck that included 30 one goal losses. To say hoping they bounce back is a sad argument I think saying that there is no way this team can be better than they were last year is a stupid argument

[Enoch Root]

Let's look at the 10 most important and impactful players on the Flames, and how they performed last season (in order of who I think is the most important):

Huberdeau: career worst season
Lindholm: slow start, some good periods, but overall, so so
Markstrom: terrible - career worst? (relative to expectations)
Kadri: good start, but disastrous overall, and beyond horrific down the stretch
Andersson: very good
Weegar: slow first half, ended strong
Backlund: really good
Toffoli: slow start, but ended up as a career year
Mangiapane: poor overall, sometimes very bad
Hanifin: meh

Can anyone look at that list and think they won't be better this year?

Then you look at the changes: Lucic, Lewis, Ritchie, Stone out; Pelletier, Coronato, Duehr, Wolf in

Pretty easy to imagine they'll be better this year, IMO

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Let's look at the 10 most important and impactful players on the Flames, and how they performed last season (in order of who I think is the most important):

Huberdeau: career worst season
Lindholm: slow start, some good periods, but overall, so so
Markstrom: terrible - career worst? (relative to expectations)
Kadri: good start, but disastrous overall, and beyond horrific down the stretch
Andersson: very good
Weegar: slow first half, ended strong
Backlund: really good
Toffoli: slow start, but ended up as a career year
Mangiapane: poor overall, sometimes very bad
Hanifin: meh

Can anyone look at that list and think they won't be better this year?

Then you look at the changes: Lucic, Lewis, Ritchie, Stone out; Pelletier, Coronato, Duehr, Wolf in

Pretty easy to imagine they'll be better this year, IMO

Yes, very easy to imagine.

Especially with Huberdeau and Markstrom. I think Huberdeau will rebound in a massive way with a new coach that should play him more, and also utilize him properly. Might not come close to 115 points but should be leaps and bounds more productive. And the bright spot with Markstrom was how he played down the stretch immediately after his wife gave birth, looked a lot more like the 'old' Markstrom. He'll be better. And I'm not sure how much worse Kadri can play. With Sutter gone I think he'll rebound nicely as well.

[Sandman]

If people are so worried about having too many players on lengthy contracts into their late 30’s, then I would rather trade Huby or Kadri than Lindholm (if he’s willing to stay). Selke-caliber centers who can put up near a ppg don’t grow on trees. If we trade Lindholm, we will pine for another Lindholm. He’s very important.

[midniteowl]

Mangiapane: poor overall, sometimes very bad

Mangiapane played injured most of the season, wasn't he?

[Jason14h]

Sure key guys didn’t perform , but Backlund, Toffoli and big Z had career high offensive seasons

Now say we subtract Hanifin and replace with a downgraded D.

Flames were also the healthiest team in the league.

Plus other teams are on the upswing - Seattle , LA for sure

So we are a bubble team . But you can argue everyone but Colorado and Vegas are “bubble teams” next year in the western conference (I would put Edmonton and Dallas as upper bubble assuming they stay healthy )

So could the Flames bounce back next year ? Absolutely . Markstrum could bounce back to .910. Hubby 90 pts and with a new coach the team plays a more exciting brand of hockey and gets 100 pts

They could also just as easy finish with 85 points

My issue is even if they have a bounce back year I don’t see them as a real contender . I don’t think they have the superstar talent to get past the 2nd round

Add on top that their stars are older and not likely to get better , even if everything goes right and they get 100 points and win a round I see a 2nd round exit as the ceiling for this team .

And that’s not a good place for a team that’s old and expensive to be .

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

Mangiapane played injured most of the season, wasn't he?

Maybe, I don't know. But it doesn't change the point, which is that there is plenty of potential for him to have a better season this year.

I wasn't criticizing any of them, simply saying that you shouldn't judge the team from a single season where so much went wrong

[Ferarri]

Originally Posted by Mephisto

This!

Flames will be looking to find someone exactly like him if he leaves. 8 x $9m is worth it for Lindholm.

Definitely agree that you need a guy like Lindholm, but the question is whether or not now is the time. If you believe the this team is going to achieve similar results as last year then is it wise to sign him? Would it be smarter to move on and rebuild with a new core and then make a splash to sign a guy like Lindholm when the window opens again?

This team is hard to gauge. Was it an off year because of distractions like Sutter and the wrong player management mixed in with sub par years from key guys or is this what this group is capable of. An injection of youth could help and the same with rebound years. It certainly is a gamble though.