[PGT] Flames 1 - Blue Jackets 3

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bingo

If they want to play for a coach that doesn't believe in support, F3 and grey zones they should probably head straight to beer league!

Well the players aren’t going anywhere so…

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Kasi

Maybe Pelletier or Zary or Coronato is but we’ll have to see when they get a chance.

Coronato isn't a sure thing we need to sign him and I have serious doubts with this head coach here he signs and actually thinks he has fair shot.

Sutter would rather sign Darren McCarty than give a undersized prospect a chance.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by jg13

he had 4 years in a row that were over a PPG, and yes the offence isnt there but i saw a stat that showed the 10/28/71 line was second in the league in 5 on 5 goals against during the broadcast.

Again Sutter teaching defence first which was definitely Huberdeaus weak point in Florida.

He has learned / is learning defence at the expense of his ridiculous offence output. It's tough for fans right now but you have to expect both will come eventually the way they did with Gaudreau. Huberdeau is too talented.

No offense, but I find this too simplistic and just an easy way to excuse the lack of production from the top guys. Learning defense? Huberdeau knows how to defend, he knows how to play prevent defense. He probably learned it as a child and it was reinforced to him throughout his hockey career.

Also, if the stats are right, he’s spending a lot of time in the offensive zone and that’s his bread and butter. I mean if he was getting buried in the dzone shift after shift, that would be one thing. But he’s not, his line is getting lots of ozone starts and they’re directing a lot of shots on goal, they’re just not particularly dangerous chances based on the eye test.

I’m also certain he’s not trying to play defense in the ozone, so there’s something else that’s happening here. There’s probably a better, more legitimate answer as to why he’s struggling mightily to manufacture goals 5 on 5. Was he too reliant on rush scoring in Florida? Does he need to go back to wide open pond hockey again like in Florida? Are his linemates not optimal for him?

[Manhattanboy]

Wrong thread

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

They were out late at Gadreaus the night before. Who also played like trash.

yeah I strongly suspect they took the opportunity to get blitzed with gaudreau just from how invisible the guys likely to gather together were

Sutter keeps his nose out of that stuff since what I've gathered from stories of players like Rhett he hasn't ever babysat the players in that way but I can't imagine he's thrilled at the performances those guys put on the ice the next day

they still looked inebriated the way they couldn't complete a pass out there

even gaudreau looked like arse handling the puck

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

It was a good trade, even in retrospect. Whether or not they should have been signed long-term before even seeing how they played with the new team is more questionable, but that trade was still great under the circumstances.

Brad’s performance was pure wizardry in that trade. I recall that his hand was forced to extend given that Huberdeau didn’t want to negotiate during the season - I may be wrong about that though.

I can’t fault Treliving for what he did - he played a #### hand like Negreanu on his best day.

However, part of me is beginning to wonder what would have happened had we not made that deal and had to go down the rebuild route with lots of cap space.

I know that is fruitless thinking and just hope something clicks, but it sure is frustrating to watch what is happening now.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

I was doing cartwheels when Tre carried off that trade.

With increasing hindsight, it is becoming possible that we’d have been better off getting nothing for Tkachuk. That mighty cap hit could be a millstone round our necks for a long time.

I think it’s possible to love the trade but not love how they handled the contract negotiations with the acquired players or the moving of the first round pick they acquired.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

copying and pasting the gaudreau contract was perhaps a little lazy

and huberdeau took it immediately because he knew it was a great deal for him

with gaudreau and Tkachuk taking under 10mil, the Flames could have shot for that as well

seemed they were desperate to lock him up just to show that they could and save face from the prior debacle

[Barnet Flame]

It was a very difficult situation, and there was talk all around the hockey world that we wouldn’t be able to hold on to him or attract another big name.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Johnny and Matthew also have been wildly inconsistent players and looked liked garbage the covid season.

Huberdeau has a proven track record from years prior so it's easy to see why he was worth more in dollars.

His contract is not what will hinder us it's when you have garbage like a Lucic on your team eating 5 million in cap space.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Kasi

Since we’re speaking of Robertson. Second round pick. Plays one season in the AHL putting up 47 points in 60 games. Gets a cup of coffee at end of season. Next season is fulltime nhl player and never goes back to the minors. Pelletier first round pick. Gets 62 points in 66 games. Second season still in the AHL. Maybe he makes the team next year.

And only team in the NHL not to promote any of their post 2018 draft picks. Both GM and coach have a preference for playing or acquiring vet forwards and playing them instead of their draft picks. The prime of a players career is younger and younger these days and they’re wasting that time in the AHL.

And most of my issues right now are with the Sutter led Flames. Peters for some reason was able to get a few players promoted and into the lineup which I’m grateful for despite all the other bad he did.

You must have a retention issue as this was all discussed all week on the site.

Lack of picks.

Lack of 1st and 2nd rounders in those years is the issue.

Or can you name a boatload of players that were blocked in Calgary that went on to have marvelous NHL careers?

Still waiting that list ... it's been about 5 days now.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Well the players aren’t going anywhere so…

If the core of this team doesn't think any of F3, puck support and the grey zone matter you better start getting rid of them actually.

You will never win with players that have that little understanding of hockey.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Coronato isn't a sure thing we need to sign him and I have serious doubts with this head coach here he signs and actually thinks he has fair shot.

Sutter would rather sign Darren McCarty than give a undersized prospect a chance.

Man you're getting to be a little much ...

[Kasi]

Pelletier is a first rounder. Zary is a first rounder. Promote one of them. Pelletier outperformed Robertson in the AHL. They’re both better than the dregs on this fourth line. Other teams find spots to slot in their recent first rounders maybe we should too.

Edit: granted it think brought this up but I don’t think leaving a player in the AHL and then pointing them as a failure at the NHL level is not a terribly fair point. Sometimes players develop faster and better playing at higher levels of competition. Say a player manages to be good enough to do well in the AHL and just never improves themself that much vs going to the NHL seeing how they lack in certain areas and focus themselves to fixing that. Playing to the level of your competition is a thing and leaving people in the AHL for years and then going “ahah you were never that good” isn’t really to me a compelling argument.

[Strange Brew]

Yeah there’s such a thing as having a strong opinion. But then having to interject it multiple times a day into every conversation is tiresome. If the goal is for people to stop listening to you, I guess consider it mission accomplished.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Kasi

Pelletier is a first rounder. Zary is a first rounder. Promote one of them. Pelletier outperformed Robertson in the AHL. They’re both better than the dregs on this fourth line. Other teams find spots to slot in their recent first rounders maybe we should too.

You talk about meritocracy all the time then say we need promote these guys because other teams promoted them too. That's not meritocracy.

[Kasi]

Please don’t talk to me about meritocracy on this team with Lucic playing every day. They pretty much admitted in preseason that based on how he played Zary should have made the team but they sent him down for reasons. (Sounded like cap/team control reasons) one of Zary or Pelletier should be up already both deserved it on their play and pedigree.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

in retrospect the absolute best move for the future of the team would've been to not sign the extensions, let weegar and huberdeau play up their value and stoke a bidding war at the deadline between contending teams, and of course keep the extra 1st

the hard part was having Sutter and markstrom signed who were win now moves .. so really it was never realistic that they would go that route with this ownership and the terms that sutter signed under. he came out of retirement to win a cup for the local team and repay ownership for their faith in him 20 years ago

there was too much pride here to resign to their fate after gaudreau left .. i respect the way tre rebounded but going all in on the elite draft could have allowed the team to rebound in a couple years with a much brighter future ahead of it

the fact that this team barely looks playoff able is damning given how much and how long we committed to these veteran players

now he has to do miraculous work around these pieces to salvage the next two years of Sutter with any kind of meaningful run

things can change but boy do things look bleak

we need a young player or two to emerge as star talents in this league to really have a shot of this turning around .. whether that's Phillips, coronato or both

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

in retrospect the absolute best move for the future of the team would've been to not sign the extensions, let weegar and huberdeau play up their value and stoke a bidding war at the deadline between contending teams, and of course keep the extra 1st

the hard part was having Sutter and markstrom signed who were win now moves .. so really it was never realistic that they would go that route with this ownership and the terms that sutter signed under. he came out of retirement to win a cup for the local team and repay ownership for their faith in him 20 years ago

there was too much pride here to resign to their fate after gaudreau left .. i respect the way tre rebounded but going all in on the elite draft could have allowed the team to rebound in a couple years with a much brighter future ahead of it

the fact that this team barely looks playoff able is damning given how much and how long we committed to these veteran players

now he has to do miraculous work around these pieces to salvage the next two years of Sutter with any kind of meaningful run

things can change but boy do things look bleak

we need a young player or two to emerge as star talents in this league to really have a shot of this turning around .. whether that's Phillips, coronato or both

If they traded them the best time was basically right after they were acquired

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Bonded

If they traded them the best time was basically right after they were acquired

maybe but not necessarily

trade deadlines tend to drive up the prices paid for commodities as contenders get desperate to put themselves over / compete with what other teams are adding

even if huby and weegars productions took a hit many teams would see it as a result of being on a team without the same supporting cast