Congresswoman and 17 others shot in Arizona

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

It was classless to imply that this nut was motivated by any political issue without evidence. A person in his position should have stuck to the facts of the case.

You have been babbling all day trying to paint this guy as an atheist, a liberal, a left-wing loon. You've even invented the Commie/Nazi hybrid label.

But it's classless to imply that this nut was motivated by any political issue without evidence.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Gozer

Arizona Representative Dr Mark Heinz described the sherriff's assertion as "correct" on CNN.

Well if 2 democrats agree it must be true. Hun?

By the way, how would Representative Heinz know what the gunman's motivation was?

You see even if all those political issues/situations exist it was uncalled for to inject them into a news conference about today's events. By doing that the sheriff implied a political link.

[Stimpy]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

It was classless to imply that this nut was motivated by any political issue without evidence. A person in his position should have stuck to the facts of the case.

And you know he isn't? This is the Sheriff of one of the biggest counties in the State facing some of the biggest problems. He is a consummate professional and highly respected in his profession and across the state. If he comes out and says something like what he said you can be damned sure that they have good information in the shape of a confession or solid intelligence leading that way. To say he was not dealing with the facts of the case is a joke since you have no idea what the facts are and he's right in the middle of the action, seeing the murders took place in his jurisdiction.

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

It would be nice if they could increase gun control, however gun control to me is only law on paper. Someone like this guy, or a criminal is going to find a way to get a gun if he wants a gun.

I think if your going to enhance gun control then you certainly have to stiffen the sentences for crimes which commission the use of fire arms both legal and illegal.

Anything else is toothless.

Plus if you decided to ban guns in the states, and miraculously got it passed, it would open a huge and uncontrolled underground gun market.

Let's face it - gun control isn't going to reduce firearm related crime. If a crook wants a gun - he'll get one and it won't be registered to him when he shoots a clerk in a liquor store.

Gun control is about making it difficult for the average Joe to buy, register and own a gun. If process to do this is long, complicated and expensive and forces people to think it's not worth getting a gun after all - it's a good start and I'm ok with it.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by pepper24

That's some scary stuff. I wonder how many of these events don't happen if Obama is white. I try my best to avoid talking politics when I am down in the US for business but had an interesting chat with some colleagues in Chicago a few weeks back. They were convinced that a lot of the tea party movement and Obama backlash is due to his race not his policies. They don't think that it's a direct response but something indirectly they have a huge issue with. Something that Clinton, Carter or Gore would get away with. They think that figures like Beck, Rush and Palin indirectly feed this as well. Either way they had some fairly convincing points.

The President's skin color has zero to do with any of those events.

[Stimpy]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

By the way, how would Representative Heinz know what the gunman's motivation was?

Did it ever cross your very small mind that this kid made threats to the offices of these politicians? There's a lot of that going on in Arizona. Maybe he can confirm this information because he received a threat similar to those received by Gifford's office?

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by PIMking

Wouldn't matter if I lived in Iowa or Wisconsin or even Florida. I will not allow someone to put a weapon in my face at my home. I guess you are fine with being packed into rail cars and being put into camps and killed.

Excellent. Godwin's Law in a sort of way. Well played PIMKing. Why would you suggest I'm okay with that? I see you've already apologized to Pylon, nice to see.

[Stimpy]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

The President's skin color has zero to do with any of those events.

Actually, it did. A few of those incidents were planned and executed by White Supremests.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Stimpy

Actually, it did. A few of those incidents were planned and executed by White Supremests.

And they would not have taken place if Obama hadn't been elected?

What do you base that on?

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

But apparently the sheriff and the congresswoman were quite close and he was prominent in her campaign for election as well.

Obviously he's very wrought and because of those personal and political ties appears unable to add an impersonal and professional viewpoint to an already charged and partisan atmosphere.

Frankly, be should probably remove himself from involvement in the case.

Well, for one he's an elected official just like any other politician. So part of his job is to express his opinion, just like Obama right on down the line.

It'd be a different story if he was a civil servant (I'll use the example of CPS Chief Rick Hansen interjecting himself into last fall's Calgary mayoral race).

Disagree with his politics if you want, but he has a history of taking controversial stands on issues.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

You know, as a Canadian, I sometimes cringe at our superiority complex.

Its nice that we try to hide it behind our polite facade but its there.

Who said it was a complex?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Stimpy

Did it ever cross your very small mind that this kid made threats to the offices of these politicians? There's a lot of that going on in Arizona. Maybe he can confirm this information because he received a threat similar to those received by Gifford's office?

Out of curiosity do you have any information on these threats or are you speculating?

Because calling someone small minded based on speculation is fairly rude.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Well if 2 democrats agree it must be true. Hun?

By the way, how would Representative Heinz know what the gunman's motivation was?

You see even if all those political issues/situations exist it was uncalled for to inject them into a news conference about today's events. By doing that the sheriff implied a political link.

Seems to me, with that statement, YOU are politicizing this more than even the sheriff did.

And for the record, did he actually say that the shooter was motivated because of Giffords political affiliation? I havent seen that clip if he has.

[Resolute 14]

Shooting someone for political reasons does not have to be a left-right thing either. Given his "second constitution" ramblings, he could have simply shot her for being a politician. That is still political, just not partisan.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Stimpy

And you know he isn't? This is the Sheriff of one of the biggest counties in the State facing some of the biggest problems. He is a consummate professional and highly respected in his profession and across the state. If he comes out and says something like what he said you can be damned sure that they have good information in the shape of a confession or solid intelligence leading that way. To say he was not dealing with the facts of the case is a joke since you have no idea what the facts are and he's right in the middle of the action, seeing the murders took place in his jurisdiction.

In this case where things are going to inflame, it would have probably been best for the sheriff to stick to the information at hand, or to the facts that are apparent. I would be interested in seeing if he's willing to quantify the political rhetoric thing in a court of law.

We don't even know what this kid has confessed to, and when he was talking about political rhetoric it didn't sound like he was attaching it for sure as a motive.

He should frankly be trying to quiet things down, not in this case firing things up.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

You have been babbling all day trying to paint this guy as an atheist, a liberal, a left-wing loon. You've even invented the Commie/Nazi hybrid label.

But it's classless to imply that this nut was motivated by any political issue without evidence.

Firstly, he is an atheist. His comments on-line reveal that. The rest is speculation based on the tidbits of information that has come in.

The difference between the sheriff and I is that he is in a position of public trust. He shouldn't use that position and this day to promote his personal political agenda. Also, you know the limited information I am baseing my conclusions on. You can accept or reject them as you wish.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Also, you know the limited information I am baseing my conclusions on. You can reject or reject them as you wish.

Can I pick both?

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Stimpy

And you know he isn't? This is the Sheriff of one of the biggest counties in the State facing some of the biggest problems. He is a consummate professional and highly respected in his profession and across the state. If he comes out and says something like what he said you can be damned sure that they have good information in the shape of a confession or solid intelligence leading that way. To say he was not dealing with the facts of the case is a joke since you have no idea what the facts are and he's right in the middle of the action, seeing the murders took place in his jurisdiction.

Well time will tell. I think he is playing politics in between getting coffee for the FBI investigators.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Can I pick both?

LOL! I guess I should go fix that.

[Stimpy]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Out of curiosity do you have any information on these threats or are you speculating?

http://townhall.com/news/politics-el...eats_last_year

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/he.../25health.html

There were more instances of violence that I can't track down. Windows were shot out in the campaign offices of candidates in Tucson and Payson during the 2010 campaign.

Because calling someone small minded based on speculation is fairly rude.

Even when they've proved to be repeatedly in this thread? Anyways, there's no speculation.