Markstrom isn't a UFA either - in the summer, everyone is 'available'
Well, except most of the good goalies are on PO teams and they want to keep their goalies.
Who are the non-UFA goalies being sold off next year? Saros and who else? Jarry maybe? Shesterkin? I don't see many teams wanting to sell their goalies under contract. Markstrom will still be the class of the bunch.
The other thing with the Flames is that they still have a TON of veterans on the team. This is not a complete rebuild (even though maybe it should be):
This is not the same as a team like the San Jose Sharks. If anything, this almost feels like the Dallas Stars model.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy
Yeah, for the Dallas Stars model to work they need to find some Jason Robertsons (39th overall) , Roope Hintzs (49th overall) and Wyatt Johnston's (23rd overall).
Hopefully they make the most of the pile of picks Conroy has been accumulating.
Yeah - for starters, they need 1 of these defensive prospects to pop and trend into a top pairing dman:
Hunter Brzustewicz
Jeremie Poirier
Etienne Morin
You’re interpreting this backwards. Markstrom is proven, he’s as good as or better than any goalie that will realistically switch teams in the next 12 months.
GMs around the league will be much more happy to go after their Brian Elliotts or Mike Smiths if they’re not mid-season and don’t have the pressure. No team’s fans or players will be biting their GM’s head off if they make a gamble trade on a goalie in the summer, because the payoff of the trade will be deferred. NJ’s GM isn’t going to trade for (for example) Jake Allen before the deadline because he knows he’s not an upgrade and he should be getting a bigger fish. But he would be more likely to pick up someone of Allen’s caliber in the summer because prices will be down and you can afford to be cheap when games aren’t on the line.
I don't think I'm miss interpreting, I simply don't agree, at all, with the bolded above. I think people go for the Brian Elliotts and Mike Smiths of the world as plan Bs, regardless of in season / out of season. I actually think GMs are more likely to make a foundational change to roster, which a goalie is the most foundational player on a team, in the offseason, vs. on the fly during the season.
Yeah - for starters, they need 1 of these defensive prospects to pop and trend into a top pairing dman:
Hunter Brzustewicz
Jeremie Poirier
Etienne Morin
Don’t forget this is defence heavy top twenty in the draft. Flames walking away with a first round defencemen wouldn’t surprise me
What I don't understand is why is it so important to trade Markström right now? Do we have so little confidence of him playing well next year? This retooling will take a couple of years, and the Vegas first round pick could be as late as 2026.
As I see it: keep him and you have a solid goaltender. Great. You can always trade him later.
Trade him: sure, but only for what you think is fair.
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If we finish bottom 10 next year we get to keep our own pick and give up Florida's first rounder to Montreal.
Next year is important to embrace the tank. Moving Markstrom helps us achieve that goal.
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What I don't understand is why is it so important to trade Markström right now? Do we have so little confidence of him playing well next year? This retooling will take a couple of years, and the Vegas first round pick could be as late as 2026.
As I see it: keep him and you have a solid goaltender. Great. You can always trade him later.
Trade him: sure, but only for what you think is fair.
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For me it's because
1) The Flames don't need solid goaltending right now. They will need it in 2+ years.
2) Markstrom has been incredibly inconsistent season to season and you could be begging to give him away this time year season.
3) Markstrom isn't part of the future and the Flames should be looking to maximize his value in a trade return.
4) I think his value will only get lower after the deadline. Yes, the Flames could have more suitors in the off-season, but so will New Jersey.
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What I don't understand is why is it so important to trade Markström right now? Do we have so little confidence of him playing well next year? This retooling will take a couple of years, and the Vegas first round pick could be as late as 2026.
As I see it: keep him and you have a solid goaltender. Great. You can always trade him later.
Trade him: sure, but only for what you think is fair.
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The issue is the fact that if we’re not bottom 10 next year then Montreal gets the higher 1st between ours and floridas. Even with Markstrom we’re likely a bottom 15 team, especially with all the defenseman we’ve moved out. Giving up a pick between 11-15 would be a massive loss in the rebuild
How people can judge when Markstrom should be traded without knowing what's on the table from Jersey right now is beyond me.
How can anyone say that?
The Flames need to go .725 to get in. It wouldn't take a Black–Scholes model in house to determine they're not going to make the playoffs.
Conroy has set a bar and he feels they should wait it out. Guessing through his 5 trades he has 2-3 stories where that worked and another 2-3 where he had to move.
They also must feel the risk of saying no to the current Jersey offer vs the summer is worth it, or they'd take the Jersey offer.
Maybe the plan is to take the Jersey offer at noon today?
Maybe Jersey is no longer interested.
Can't imagine judging the decision making of someone that actually knows what's going on with next to zero information themselves.
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Don’t forget this is defence heavy top twenty in the draft. Flames walking away with a first round defencemen wouldn’t surprise me
While I agree with BPA, I do think the Flames need to start bringing in more forward prospects as I think it is a bit thin when it comes to potential prospects who can become top line players. I don't think there is a single one.
Personally, I see Zary turning into a really great second line player.
I wonder what the overlap is of people saying Conroy didn't get enough for Hanifin and people saying trade Markstrom now and lower the ask? If he doesn't like Holtz (the same Holtz that even Fitz was saying wasn't playing good) then why would he cave for that player?
What I don't understand is why is it so important to trade Markström right now? Do we have so little confidence of him playing well next year? This retooling will take a couple of years, and the Vegas first round pick could be as late as 2026.
As I see it: keep him and you have a solid goaltender. Great. You can always trade him later.
Trade him: sure, but only for what you think is fair.
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We aren't making the playoffs. Trading him now can only improve our draft position.
I would argue he also has more value now, but we don't even need that argument here
Yeah - for starters, they need 1 of these defensive prospects to pop and trend into a top pairing dman:
Hunter Brzustewicz
Jeremie Poirier
Etienne Morin
I think the realistic ceiling for each of those is a second pairing guy, with PP time.
Their best chance for a top pairing dman is this draft. But I wouldn't pin my hopes on any of those 3.
We aren't making the playoffs. Trading him now can only improve our draft position.
I would argue he also has more value now, but we don't even need that argument here
I think, if I was sitting in Conroy's seat, and I'm making the assumption, which I know is debatable, that I have the green light to trade Markstrom whenever I want, that this is the most fascinating question to ponder.
How much will trading Markstrom now improve our draft position? How much does it need to improve it, for that to outweigh the "better" return on the trade Conroy might be holding out for?
Obviously questions we can't answer, but I'd say that would be the toughest part of the "modeling" he'd be having to do on this trade, knowing that he also can't control how much the team will tank once Marky leaves.
I don't think I'm miss interpreting, I simply don't agree, at all, with the bolded above. I think people go for the Brian Elliotts and Mike Smiths of the world as plan Bs, regardless of in season / out of season. I actually think GMs are more likely to make a foundational change to roster, which a goalie is the most foundational player on a team, in the offseason, vs. on the fly during the season.
This is probably right - thinking back, there are hardly any trades for goalies at the TDL and way more in the offseason. Not starters anyway.
I think the realistic ceiling for each of those is a second pairing guy, with PP time.
Their best chance for a top pairing dman is this draft. But I wouldn't pin my hopes on any of those 3.
Yeah, that can be likely. Maybe that's not the worst thing either as they will still have Weegar and Andersson. Personally, I just don't know if the Flames should focus a ton on defense right now versus just keep giving these young prospects chances and hope some of them pop.
I think, if I was sitting in Conroy's seat, and I'm making the assumption, which I know is debatable, that I have the green light to trade Markstrom whenever I want, that this is the most fascinating question to ponder.
How much will trading Markstrom now improve our draft position? How much does it need to improve it, for that to outweigh the "better" return on the trade Conroy might be holding out for?
Obviously questions we can't answer, but I'd say that would be the toughest part of the "modeling" he'd be having to do on this trade, knowing that he also can't control how much the team will tank once Marky leaves.
Vladar has looked great at times (v Edmonton both times) and bad (Leafs). I think they win less but probably not as much less as people think. He still wins more than he loses.
